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FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan

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Christopher McDonell
FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 1, 2015 at 2:04:38 am

So... what's the verdict? Does it (mostly) still work? Any guinea pigs out there ready to report :)


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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 1, 2015 at 3:57:54 pm

What's the rush? You're running six-year-old software. A few days -- or weeks or months, depending -- won't hurt anything.

I personally don't get why everyone gets so het up over a new OS. It's just an operating system. It's not like it's application software.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Daniel Waldron
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 1, 2015 at 8:08:12 pm

I see Dave often beating this drum and I completely agree with him. If you depend on Final Cut Pro 6 or 7 for work, there is no reason to consider upgrading. The possible downside of no longer being able to access any of your projects far outweighs the upside of a few newer features that offer no improvement for Final Cut.

Every time a new OS is released, these forums fill with people running into issues because they wanted to be the first to update. I say be patient and wait for companies to work out the bugs caused by the new OS. In your case, don't upgrade at all if you want Final Cut to still work since it hasn't been supported in years..


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Christopher McDonell
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 2, 2015 at 4:55:20 pm

The question stands. If it doesn't apply to you, no need to comment. We all have our reasons.

I'm currently running Mavericks with FCP 6 and have only a few minor issues. But now that iPhoto has become Photos, it's made a mess of trying to keep the iPhone in sync for apps like Instagram and WhatsApp. So that's why I'm looking to upgrade. It's not for split screens. See.. everyone has their reasons.


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Daniel Waldron
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 2, 2015 at 5:29:30 pm

The question has been answered. You can even look two threads down and see it does not work for someone. I'm sorry it's not the answer you want, but the fact is if you update your OS, you run the very big risk of losing access to your unsupported software and projects. Even if someone chimes in and says it works for them, that doesn't mean you are guaranteed the same result.

If you really must try it, I recommend making a Time Machine backup so you can revert back to what you have if need be.


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alberto engeli
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 2, 2015 at 5:47:07 pm

this guru says it works: http://fcpxpert.net/2015/09/28/el-capitan-and-fcp-x-and-7/



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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 2, 2015 at 6:12:25 pm

Yeah, and did you read what was written?

"But this time, if you’re using Pro Apps, I’d recommend holding off for a bit. And by “a bit”, I mean until Pro App and 3rd party plugin updates appear."

Now, that's Pro Apps, which Apple still supports. What would this guy say about FCP, which has been dead for three years?

Grasping at straws.........

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 2, 2015 at 9:25:14 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Oct 2, 2015 at 10:10:38 pm

The solution -- get another computer for that new OS.

You won't do it? Then don't crab whenever your old, old Version of FCP decides to stop working properly on a new, new OS.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 2, 2015 at 6:34:39 pm

These 7-vs.-new-OS threads are the strangest things; on the one hand, you have die-hards devoted to an obsolete application, yet at the same time, feeling compelled to slavishly update the OS every time a new point version comes out. Imagine car owners who transplanted the old engine from their first car, into their brand-new car, every time they traded in their old car.

And then complaining it runs rough!

The two compulsions contradict each other.

Love seven? No problem; just back up/clone the boot drive, keep your system in a bell jar, somewhere around 10.2, and stop updating the OS, and it will continue to run the way you're used to. Don't expect it to deal with a future it wasn't built to live in. Save new OS upgrades for a separate machine. You are done upgrading and updating your FCP7 system. Done. No more tweaks. No mods. Done.

Run it the way it is, until it no longer serves your needs.

It really is that simple.


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Christopher McDonell
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 2, 2015 at 10:53:09 pm

I was thinking of a car metaphor myself. My 1988 Mazda ran like a beauty, fast and quiet, and only this summer did I have to put it out to pasture. But with software, 3 years and it's dead. Move on. Now what's wrong with that picture?

I just know that eventually, someone who has actually upgraded their system to El Cap and tried editing with FCP 6 or 7, is going to write in. Maybe it'll be me. For those of us to whom this matters, the foolish diehards, I guess we'll just have to cipher through the noise until it happens. ;)


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Daniel Waldron
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 3, 2015 at 5:05:21 pm

"But with software, 3 years and it's dead. Move on. Now what's wrong with that picture?"

Video technology is improving too quickly for it to be worth supporting old software. I know it sucks in some ways, but that's the way the professional editing world is moving.


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Jim Scott
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 4, 2015 at 2:55:41 pm

If you really want to know how FCP is going to work with El Capitan go ahead and upgrade. If you want a guinea pig… be the guinea pig.

If it works, great. If not, admit your foolishness and move back to the clone of your previously working system that you had so wisely saved.



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Scott Koué
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Feb 18, 2017 at 3:57:17 pm

There are different answers for different people/ situations. To assume that your personal needs and wishes are the same as everyone else's is just not very helpful to anyone.

The short answer is maybe. I'm in a similar quandary. My main gig is sound post and that is done on another machine. The sound hardware ran over $15K and would cost almost as much to upgrade with no big upside so that machine is sound only on a G5 running very old (by todays standards) software. Works great and I have a backup G5 so that system will probably not change unless some really big $ job comes in that requires it.

My quandary is on the second system. It was a MBP that couldn't go past 6.8, but I upgraded the whole thing to a newer machine and basically was forced to go to 10.10.

FCP6 works on 10.10 and all of the plugins I had also work fine. Many other parts of FCS2 however didn't make the switch successfully. IF upgrading to FCX would have worked I would have dropped the $ and doe it BUT FCPX does not export OMF's and has a number of other issues plus (at least then) would not import FCP6 projects. So that was a dead end. The big switch to app for many had been Premiere and I might have gone there if it hadn't become CC and gone subscription.

So figuring that FCP6 would be dead in OSX10.11 and refusing to rent software I went on a quest for alternatives.
And that is what I would recommend for you. FCP6 might work for you in 10.11 but it's a roll of the dice and you might have some odd problems and will have zero support so...

My solutions (I'm still on 10.10 BTW):
FCP:
I have been migrating everything to DaVinci Resolve. It fits my needs but you should definitely check it out to see if it meets yours. My reasons are 1) FCPX doesn't meet my needs with out a bunch of third party helpers and I have zero trust that Apple will not pull the rug out again. CC is subscription and I won't go there. DaVinci is a mixed bag. As a NLE it works but is still growing so in many ways it's not as mature as CC or FCPX, but it has fantastic color correction built in. It is a solid and professional workflow and I have a lot of confidence that it will be supported and not dropped for a more "grandma friendly" downgrade in the future. And it imports just about everything so my old projects with some tweaking have all worked. My most important plugins have versions that work in Resolve.

Photoshop:
Affinity Photo has been a pretty good replacement. I actually have a bunch of pain/ draw applications and between them haven't had the need to open PS(CS4) in a long time. CS4 works, mostly, in 10.10 but I have heard that it won't at all in 10.11. Affinity Designer is the vector partner and the projects are cross compatible. Together they really cover a lot of ground.

Motion/ After Effects:

Fusion (also by Black Magic) is extremely powerful. The downside is that it is node based and the learning curve from track based such as AE and Motion is steep at first. The upside is that ALL of the top VFX applications are node based because of how incredibly flexible the system is so once you get your head around it you will be amazed at how much more "logical" things are.

I am still holding off on the OS upgrade till I make sure all my old projects have opened in the newer apps. So far it has been pretty solid. The exceptions of course are projects with plugins that don't cross over, but that is always the case. So right now if There is an issue I can still open the original and see what I did so I can use the DaVinci equivalent. Really there are not that many projects that I need to be able to reopen and update so I expect in a month or so I will be doing the 10.11 update.

I'm updating because there are other updates and such that need 10.11.


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Declan Smith
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 4, 2015 at 4:23:41 pm

I echo what others say, to a point. There are reasons for upgrading, perhaps other apps, Web security etc, BUT, why upgrade the operating environment that your main apps work in when they are working just fine. The saying "Don't fix what ain't broke" comes to mind.

I still use Snow Leopard for my FCS 3 environment, works like a dream. In fact, rendering from compressor is way faster in Snow Leopard than in higher operating systems (in the tests I have done at least).

I set my machine up to boot from multiple partitions. I have the following:

Snow Leopard (for FCS suite)
Mountain Lion (For Adobe CS6 suite)
General, (Yosemite or even El Capitan) - Used for "photos" and general office stuff.

I can use 95% of what I need in Mountain Lion: FCS3, Adobe CS6, Aperture, Logic Pro, iPhoto, Safari, Mail, Pages, Numbers, etc etc. The Snow Leopard partition has Rosetta support for some of the apps I just can't move forward (Such as older cubase files that have to be step converted if I wanted to use the latest).

The "General" partition I am free to keep up with the latest and it allows me to check for myself whether things work without losing actual working time or setup as it's on it's own partition.

That said, this setup will be of no consolation if my MacPro dies. New Apple hardware only supports the OS that was out on the day you buy it. So new MacPros will only have El Capitan and cannot run previous versions. This is where, in my opinion, the real problem is. You can't always revert to a previous version of the operating system software even if you wanted to, so you can't run up the apps that you've paid for and that are used to access the work that you have created.

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

"it's either binary or it's not"


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John Rofrano
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Oct 5, 2015 at 11:28:00 am

[Declan Smith] "I set my machine up to boot from multiple partitions. I have the following:"
+1

I maintain 2 partitions on my 2010 Mac Pro:

Snow Leopard for FCS HD suite
Yosemite for FCP X and everything else

If you want to continue using discontinued software, you really need to keep the entire environment intact because newer OS's will surely beak things. Luckily Mac OS X makes this very easy to do.

I received an email the night before the El Capitan launch from Arturia and Native Instruments both warning me that if I upgrade to El Capitan their Audio Unit plug-ins would stop working with Logic Pro X but they are working with Apple on the problem. So even with new supported software it's not always wise to upgrade right away.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Neil Sadwelkar
FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 5, 2015 at 12:20:19 pm

I agree with not upgrading if FCP 7 is your primary editing (and bread-winning) application. It works fine for many folks who have established workflows with it.
For me, for instance, the need to take ProRes exports and line them up with Dolby 5.1 discrete audio tracks and export QT with 6-8 tracks of audio is something that works just fine with FCP 7 so I have a system which has 7 and I'm not upgrading anytime soon.

But another angle to this question is for those who have a running FCP 7 installation on, say, an older iMac or MacPro. Today if they were to buy a new system it would come pre-installed with El Capitan with no way to downgrade. In that case, the question "Does FCP 7 work with El Capitan?" is valid. And from what I've read, FCP 7 seems to work fine with El Capitan.

But taking a brand new system and attempting to install FCP 7 on it from scratch. That's also a question they need a firm answer because else they'll be putting down 2-3k $ and finding out that it doesn't work.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 5, 2015 at 5:03:39 pm

Neil, that question may be moot, as the installer for FCP7 won't work in El Cap. You can try to leave an already-installed FCP7 in place and upgrade the OS around it, but trying to install FP7 fresh into these newer OS's may not even start, because the FCP installer is looking for and built for, the older OS.

That's what it is absolutely essential for any continuing FCP7 user to take the time and buy a drive and clone their working system. Today. Against the eventual need to re-install back into the existing machine.


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John Rofrano
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 5, 2015 at 9:34:56 pm

[Mark Suszko] "Neil, that question may be moot, as the installer for FCP7 won't work in El Cap. You can try to leave an already-installed FCP7 in place and upgrade the OS around it, but trying to install FP7 fresh into these newer OS's may not even start, because the FCP installer is looking for and built for, the older OS."
Yea, the whole idea is that you cannot buy a new system. That's the price of using discontinued software. You must continue to maintain the hardware and software that the application runs on for as long as you intent to use it. The good news is that there is plenty of life left in the 2010/2012 Mac Pro.

For example: I could not get DVD Studio Pro to install on Mountain Lion. I had to re-install Snow Leopard onto a drive, boot from that drive, install DVD Studio Pro, then copy the files to all the appropriate places on my Mountain Lion drive just to get it to work. Then much to my surprise, when I built a new Yosemite system, DVD Studio Pro suddenly had no problem installing again BUT, not all of the functions work! Some windows have empty drop down boxes for some of the choices. That's why i still maintain a Snow Leopard drive for using DVD Studio Pro (for which there is no replacement from Apple)

This is extremely easy to figure out BTW.

Buy an external hard drive, install El Capitan on it, boot from it and try and install FCP 7 and let us know how it goes. This will cause no harm to your original hard drive so it's completely safe to try. That's what I love about OS X. You can boot from as many versions as you need to.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Ernie Fritz
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 27, 2015 at 8:26:48 pm

I have updated one (actually older) Macbook Pro to El Capitan and FCP7 works fine. I have even run a recent project on the system for a few hours and all seems to be well. (I did not use the installer, but rather already had FCP7 on the computer -- so I can't speak for the installer issue that some people are reporting)

As far as Yosemite, I've been running FCP7 on that for months and had not had any issues at all. Works great on two different systems.

As far as the issue of why still use FCP7? ... As a few people have already noted, we all have our reasons. Just leave it at that. Some of us STILL like it very much.

I, for one, still edit all my projects on FCP7, and then export the final XLM into FCPX (7toX) and finish the titles and color there. (The audio is a mix between FCP7 (OMF export) and and FCPX -- don't ask, but it works for me) FCPX is quite nice for many "finishing" things but I would hate to edit an hour+ documentary on it. It's just not really great for long-form projects.

The bottom line is this, FCP7 is still great. So, not to be a hard-ass, but if someone posts a question, shouldn't we try to answer it rather than tell the person to forget it --- It's really not helpful. We're editors ... we solve problems. That's what the job is, because God knows, they didn't do it on set.


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Roger Poole
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 28, 2015 at 1:32:00 am
Last Edited By Roger Poole on Oct 28, 2015 at 2:10:39 am

Ernie, I don't think anyone is being hard ass as you put it. What people are advising is to keep FCP7 in an environment where it is happy and will do everything that is expected of it. Nobody want's an app which throws up unexpected behavior when you are trying to get your work done. Of course FCP7, at it's best, always did have the odd wobble now and then but there were accepted resolutions to all of them. Stray into uncharted territory with a non-qualified operating system you are on your own because there are no known fixes. That aside, if anyone can give me a technically valid or good reason for running FCP7 on anything other than OS 10.6.8 I'll be glad to hear it.


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Michael Brown
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 19, 2015 at 3:11:42 pm

Hi Roger, I can in fact: I am tackling a big doc project that will take me months to edit, and I doubt my current (and beloved) MacBook Pro with it's limited RAM and processor can handle it; besides, I want to (exceptionally) make use of multi-clip editing in this project (primarily to gain time on various aspects of it), and the MB Pro just won't handle playback in multiclip, and I also need to use 3 monitors, which the MBP won't deliver to. So I have no choice but to buy a decent new machine, and there I am: stuck with El Cap for an iMac (affordable and decent solution for my needs), or Maverick on a MacPro (NOT affordable!). Switching to FCPX is out of the question because I don't have the time to adapt to it on this project. In a nutshell.

So I'd be glad for a simple answer from users who have taken the dive.

Thanks to all for so many interesting posts. It's good to feel you're not alone ;-)

Michael Brown


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Anthony Dalesandro
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 28, 2015 at 9:09:43 pm

Thank you Ernie for answering the question. It took 16 posts but now I have the answer.


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Daniel Waldron
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 28, 2015 at 11:32:58 pm

It doesn't work on mine. Best of luck to you though. Make sure to make a backup before you upgrade!


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Daniel Waldron
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 28, 2015 at 11:48:39 pm

No offense Ernie, but your post is no more of a solution than anyone else's. The original poster asked if FCP 6-7 worked in El Capitan. The answer is a giant maybe. I personally know several people who tried and it does not work. There are plenty more examples here online. Then there are some people like you who have had success. That's great and I'm happy you haven't had to deal with the nightmare that others have when FCP won't open and they no longer have access to their projects. You say we as editors need to find solutions, but the problem itself is easily avoidable to begin with.

I guess I'm just confused on why certain people are getting so uptight about being given reasonable advice to not upgrade, or at least have a backup plan should things go south. It's like they're looking for an answer and are upset when it's not the one they want. Even a recent poster thanked you for answering the question after "16 posts", cherrypicking your post and ignoring the other answers that did not match what they want.


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Ernie Fritz
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 29, 2015 at 3:19:24 pm

Daniel

You make some fair points. Always, Always, Always back up multiple copies to multiple places.

So, to be clear -- FCP7 works fine on El captain (for me - your result may vary) and certainly fine on Yosemite.

I guess, what I object to is when people ask; why would one want to keep working on FCP7? -- it's because it still works great and it make sense (If you own it -- it's FREE). Editing skills do not improve with better wipes but you machine may improve with a newer OS. So, if you can have both, why not?

I HAVE gone through the nightmare of loosing files and DO know what it's like. I have probably been through every possible nightmare scenario between FILM labs, RT11 files, EDL's, OMF's, Bad XML files, PAL to NTSC issues, Drop Frame and Non Drop Frame, square and non-square Pixels ... And so, I don't take the original query lightly ... still, that was the question being asked. I do use newer software as well, but for day to day cutting -- getting the edit right --FCP7 is still pretty great. Why apple didn't go for FCP8 is the real question.


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Christopher McDonell
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Oct 29, 2015 at 5:22:03 pm

To clarify, I didn't ask if I should update to El Capitan (which is what the advice was generally aimed at). I asked if anyone out there who had updated could tell us whether FCP 6 or 7 still worked. I do appreciate the advice and will put some of it into practice, but it's not like I haven't heard it before. With each new OS, we go through this same ole dance.

I'd actually like to try out FCPX. I'm intrigued by Ernie's suggestion of using it in tandem with FCP 6-7 for audio, colour correction and graphics. But the demo only works on Yosemite or El Capitan. I'm currently on Mavericks. So now legacy users who are afraid to upgrade can't even try the demo!

I think I'll be cloning, upgrading and giving it all a try pretty soon. Ernie's post, and this youtube video that I found, gives me some hope.






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Christopher McDonell
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 2, 2015 at 11:32:37 pm

Today, I'm my own guinea pig. I upgraded from 10.8.5 to 10.11.1 and have been cutting just fine with FCP 6.0.6 all day. So far so good. No issues to report. I'll keep the readers of this post posted.


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Grant Wilber
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 6, 2015 at 6:25:45 pm

For others wondering. I just bought a macbook pro, upgraded to El Capitan, installed FCP7, and it's been running ok. Certain projects have crashed a lot, I think it's just when it's pushing a heavy timeline with layers of video or lots of effects. But it's still functioning for those that need it.


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Peter Humble
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 10, 2015 at 9:17:25 am

I noticed a few people in this thread suggesting to boot from a partitioned drive and that this is really straight forward.

Call me a dinosaur but I'm keen to keep running FCP7. I do a lot of editing but am not working as a "pro" and I can't afford a new computer as some here suggest as a solution.

I'm running Mountain Lion on a 2011 Macbook and and runs beautifully.

My reason for wanting to upgrade the OS is for pretty much everything else I do on my computer outside of FCP7. My feeling is that as my non pro software gets continually updated (I usually just grab updates as they come up for general user apps) that my computer is struggling a bit. I'm assuming this is because a lot of the newer general purpose software is optimised for the more recent OS.

So my question is can someone point me to how I configure my system to achieve what many here suggest of running concurrent OS's on the same machine?

Thanks


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Michael Brown
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 19, 2015 at 3:23:53 pm

I folks, so to sum up what I remaorked on Roger's and Ernie's comments earlier in the thread:

I NEED a new computer to handle the large project I'm tackling, because my otherwise very dependable MBP 15" ist just plain to slow to accommodate so much footage, an additional external monitor, and drive multiclip editing …
I CANNOT move to FCPX because I don't have the time to adapt to it on this project
and DON'T really have the moolah for a $7.000 MacPro set up (that would open on Yosemite, if need be).

Hence the question: FCP 7 on a 27" iMac 5K, yes or no?

Thanks folks :-D

Michael Brown


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Christopher McDonell
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 20, 2015 at 6:07:10 am

HI Michael,

Since you're posting on this thread, I assume your real question is whether FCP 7 will work with El Capitan, the defacto OS of any new hardware upgrade. On matters of compatibility, it seems vs 6 and 7 are pretty much the same, save for 6's need for Rosetta if one wishes to do a clean install. So as mentioned a few threads up, I became my own guinea pig recently and upgraded my 2012 rMBP to El Capitan and have been happily cutting away with FCP 6 for 3 weeks now with no issues whatsoever. Really boggles my mind how "it can work for some and not others". My experience so far has been fabulous. And I'm really loving El Cap, even better than Mavericks.

I've so far cut and mastered a 5 minute video using HDV 30p. I did some titling in Motion 5. Since you can't roundtrip with this version, I've been exporting the clips as ProRes 4444 and bringing them in. I've applied a few filters: 3-way Colour Corrector, Broadcast Safe, etc. The usual transitions: fades, dissolves. No crashing, no hiccups at all.

I sent audio to Soundtrack Pro for Multitrack Editing. STP has worsened for age, that I can say. It crashed on me anytime I clicked out to check email or browse Safari. But I've always had a love/hate (mostly hate) relationship with STP. At least I was able to export an AIF sound mix, bring it back into FCP and voila!

Finally, I exported a QT movie (both as reference & self-contained). Then finished up in Compressor.

A user above warns of crashing with big files. Well, I'm now back onto my 100 minute doc. It's multi-layered, with lots of graphics, stills and audio tracks. So far, no problems...

All in all, I'm glad I upgraded. It's given me a chance to test out the free FCPX trial. (Cause let's face it, eventually we're going to have to abandon this gentle giant!) And of course, I made a clone of my Mavericks drive so I've always got that to fall back on. But I'm optimistic things will be just fine.

My specs: FCP 6.0.6, El Capitan, rMBP 15" i7 2.6 GHz, 16 GB RAM


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Michael Brown
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 20, 2015 at 10:00:59 am

Thanks Christopher!

That's more or less exactly what I wanted to hear, and if I read more such statements, I would feel safer in the choice I am making: I've decided to go for the more affordable iMac solution, and am getting the previous 5K model that was just replaced a couple of months ago by the new one with its advantages of still running on Yosemite and the option to upgrade to El Cap, should FCP7 turn out to run better on the latter. The difference between this system and what I'm using now is more than overwhelming enough, and I'm pretty sure I'll be satisfied. My current project is a music doc (the making of a contemporary jazz album), for which I shot hours of live, studio and interviews, usually combining up to 7 different cameras, so I have a shit load of work ahead of me.

To whom it may concern, knowing that I may be taking a risky dive, I'm hanging on to my current MBP on the reliable Snow Leopard, so if all hell breaks loose, I can always go back to that for this project, but I hope I don't have to and I'll keep you folks posted on his thread.

Anyone out there who can tell me that if I migrate my FCP7 to the iMac, will I still have the license on the former MBP set-up?

Best from Hamburg (f**g rainy these days) ;-)

Michael Brown


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Bobby Hall
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 29, 2015 at 9:04:55 am

I just bought a rMBP and I'd like to install FCP 7 on it. It came with Yosemite and I was wondering if it makes any difference if I upgrade to El Capitan. Is there any difference in how FCP 7 runs in El Capitan compared to Yosemite?


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Michael Brown
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 29, 2015 at 5:17:04 pm

Bobby, 1st off FCP 7 runs quite well up to now on my new iMac with Yosemite. From my personal experience a MBP will be a bit slow for FCP7, unless you're not interested in multicam editing. Can you go over 8 Gb RAM on that, and what's the processor and graphics card? That will make your difference. (Note that I ran fcp 7 on my 5-yrs old MBP for 5 years very successfully, but it spent nights converting and rendering which took up too much memory to do anything else simultaneously.

I recently switched to the affordable iMac precisely for that reason, hence boosting the latter, and of course it's much more comfortable, but I specifically chose the previous (3-month old) model in order to get it with Yosemite and if needed, be bale to upgrade to El Capitan in case FCP didn't operate well. The other way around doesn't work – you can't downgrade! – and then I wouldn't have had that option.

However, and this in reply to my previous posts and questions, many of which were nicely answered:

It appears that the drive speed is an essential factor. Up to a few days ago I was using 4TB LaCie drives, one for the ProRes converted media, the other for render files and original media storage, and despite the much faster iMac, playback in multicam was bogging. My drives were connected via USB 3, previously on the MBP via FW800.

So I splurged 350 bucks on a LaCie 4TB Thunderbolt drive, sacrificed one port and hence one additional external monitor (that I could always try to connect with USB), hoping thunderbolt would make the difference.

IT DOES NOT! In fact, FCP multicam works better on the previous drive! The thunderbolt drive takes longer to restart playback once it's bogged (sound keeps rolling and it eventually catches up) than hitting the pause button twice to get playback rolling again in sync. I am tempted to send the damn thing back. I cannot afford 350 bucks for lousy experiments anymore.

What does work in multicam is setting your RT playback to medium quality and half-frames when multicam playback is checked and unclicking auto render! The playback is of course stuttery, but for the 1st editing process it works, even on the 9-angle set-up. Once you uncollapse your multicam clip for decent preview, effects etc… then you can uncheck multicam playback and you see what you deserve. So that's 'satisfactory'.

Q1: Do I understand correctly that the thunderbolt drive being a typical 7200 rpm drive is not substantially sped up by the thunderbolt connection and that my investment was to little to no avail?

Q2: Does all this mean that for better playback conditions in multicam (9 angles) I have to move on to an SSD drive? The financial aspect is frightening.

Who can keep my going on this before I give up?

Thanks for your invaluable support!

Michael Brown


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Declan Smith
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 29, 2015 at 6:21:58 pm

A1 - Thunderbolt is fast, but your speed will be governed by the disk. Use the Black Magic Disk Speed test program to see whether your read/write speeds are sufficient. See below, if you have an external multi disk capable setup that you cold put into a RAID0 array, that may help.

A2 - I have changed the main disks in my Mac to SSD's but for the main media drives, this would be prohibitively expensive. What I do have for my media drives is put two of them in a RAID 0 configuration which approximately makes them twice as fast. So two plain old drives in a RAID 0 configuration will give you higher read and write speeds. Of coarse you don't have any redundancy and if one drive fails, you lose all data stored in the RAID 0 array, but you really should have a backup regime in place consisting of three copies of your data. It's gutting to think I have three 12TB arrays, which you would think is 36TB of storage, but as 2 of them are backups, it's just 12TB, but spinning disks are cheap and there would be nothing worse than losing the data!

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

"it's either binary or it's not"


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Bobby Hall
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 29, 2015 at 11:32:49 pm

Michael,
I have a 2009 MacBrook Pro with OS 10.6.8 running FCP 7, and I recently bought a 15 inch retina MacBook Pro and also want to run FCP 7 on it. It came with Yosemite but asks me if I want to upgrade to El Capitan, and I didn't know if it makes any difference in how FCP 7 runs.

My new MacBook Pro is 2.5 GHz quad-core Intel Core 7 with 6 MB L3 cache, 16 GB of 1600 MHz DD3RL SDRAM, Intel Iris Pro Graphics, and AMD Radeon R9 M370X graphics processor with 2 GB of GDDR5 memory.


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Michael Brown
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 30, 2015 at 9:14:12 am

Hey Bobby,

I'm not the specialist around here, our hosts know much more about this stuff, but your config sounds very familiar to my previous one.

In my opinion you did well to go with Yosemite. I've been running FCP on it for 2 weeks now and it runs like a charm, except for the drive speed issues that I only suffer from in multicam, otherwise never have! I've read threads that both seriously warn against FCP on El Cap and some that claim 'no problem', but this way you can always upgrade (and perhaps even go back) if the need arises.

Now your new MBP sounds like it could well be tough enough to handle FCP 7, and if we follow Declan's helpful advice by raiding externals to speed up disk drives, then you might be quite happy with FCP on your new MBP.

Having edited loads of projects on my old MBP for years, I can only suggest you make sure you have a real nice big ext. monitor to make your environment more comfortable, and considering the 15" MBP, if you can hook up 2 externals with it, the better so. I couldn't with my 2010 15" MBP, but I don't know about the new ones.

BTW: I'm very happy with my NEC Spectraview 23", with it's great advantage of having a matte screen. I've always missed my old aluminum MBP ;-)

Glad to be of assistance ;-)

Michael Brown


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Bobby Hall
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 30, 2015 at 8:59:21 pm

Thanks for the advice Michael!


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Christopher McDonell
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 30, 2015 at 10:04:11 pm

There's some long responses on here that have taken this thread into different directions. But as for your question Bobby, as I posted above, I've been cutting with FCP 6 on El Capitan for several weeks now and all is (mostly) fine. There've been a few hiccups along the way but nothing warranting a downgrade to Mavericks (or Yosemite). FCP 6 on Mavericks wasn't perfect either.

A few new things I can report on:

1) The 'pencil crayon' selection in the Colour Grabber remains blank for at least one of the transitions. The spectrum, wheel, slider, etc. all work though. So no biggy.

2) Command-Z Undo, hit in rapid succession, has crashed FCP twice on me now. So I increased my auto-save to every 20 minutes.

3) Boot up or rending progress bar shows the percentage number overlapping itself until it's unreadable. It's been doing this to me since Mavericks though.

That's it. In my experience anyway. To purchase an older iMac just because it comes with Yosemite seems a little nuts to me. El Capitan is a performance and speed-based upgrade. Most reviewers tout it as being far superior to Yosemite.

My specs: FCP 6.0.6, El Capitan, rMBP 15" i7 2.6 GHz, 16 GB RAM


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Bobby Hall
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 30, 2015 at 11:23:34 pm

Thanks Christopher. I didn't buy an older mac just to get Yosemite though. I bought the most recent retina MacBook Pro from Best Buy (at least they told me it was the most recent, and checking online I see it's from mid 2015) and it came with Yosemite. I was just wondering if there's any advantage or disadvantage to upgrading to El Capitan if I want to use FCP 7.


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Greg Newman
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 30, 2015 at 9:46:06 pm

I have come across your posts and noticed that you installed FCP7 successfully. Like others above, I too like to use 7 for long form projects and X for quick and color fixes. Starting today FCP7 would not open. I have tried to open the program from a project or the launch and no luck. I thought that a new install would be the answer. It's not. I'm told that my installation has failed. So I come to you for an answer; Do I need to remove other parts, (compressor, iDVD etc. in order to have a successful installation?


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Christopher McDonell
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 30, 2015 at 10:07:32 pm

Before re-installing FCS, you need to uninstall it properly by downloading and running Digital Rebellion's FCS Remover. You can find it and read up on it here.

My specs: FCP 6.0.6, El Capitan, rMBP 15" i7 2.6 GHz, 16 GB RAM


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Michael Brown
Re: FCP 7 meets new machine with El Capitan
on Nov 30, 2015 at 11:47:30 pm

Hi Greg, I read Christopher's reply and he's doubtessly right, however I only had my HD migrated from my MBP to the iMac and I had no need to re-install anything at all. Just fyi ;-)

Also good to know: I have now experimented with the LaCie Thunderbolt drive, found it not satisfactory, raised it with a LaCie USB3 to split up some of my media (2 & 2 angles to begin with), and it still didnb't help. Now I'm back on one drive (the USB runs smoother!) and I'm going to send the Thunderbolt drive back to where it came from. Multicam runs fine on Yosemite (here on my system), but you must choose 1/2-frames and medium or low quality to prevent it from bogging. Once I get to the 7-angles issue I'll likely raid again, but will preferably try to stick to a WD (my best experience and much quieter than the LaCies).

Michael Brown


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Gary Goldblum
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Dec 9, 2015 at 1:11:31 am

Here is my experience. I've updated a MBPro and a Mac Pro to El Capitain...

DVD Studio Pro works until you hit the "simulate" button, then it completely locks up. Both Machines.

FCP 7 seems a little sluggish when I launch and importing from P2 cards. By this I mean I have to click the icon twice before it launches. I also have to select "log and transfer" twice before it opens the window. It does this on various windows. Aside from that it seems to work.

I have completely given up on Compressor since Yosemite as I found it to lock up a lot. I like the new version better and it is a lot faster. All the FCP Bundle worked rock solid in Yosemite.

I just started with FCPX and I must say I like it except for one thing. I HATE the rectified audio waveforms. How can anyone edit with these half ass waveforms???

Thanks for the post!!

Thanks!

Gary


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Jason Scholder
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Dec 20, 2015 at 11:49:22 pm

I am going to chime in here.

I am on the same page as the people who are asking to please answer the question as opposed to judging the asker for using "old software" or wanting a new operating system, etc. I have my reasons for wanting to upgrade to El Cap but still use FCP 7. It's because I want to use other software that requires the new operating system. So all of this presumptive dissing is really unhelpful.

My gratitude to those who did answer the question. I'm still unsure of what to do but I may go for it. For now I feel like I have two computers that are compromised b/c neither of them have all the software I need them to have. So it goes. Ironically. Because my purpose for buying a 2nd computer was to be able to work from home and office. Now I can't do either unless both machines are in the same location. Fortunately one is a laptop.

OK. If anyone has more input that actually answers this very important question (to some of us, anyway) the more info the better! Thanks!!


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Declan Smith
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Dec 21, 2015 at 10:52:24 am

As there are many differing opinions on whether you should upgrade or not and no clear "yes it works, no it doesn't" answer, I would suggest that you try it out for yourself on your setup, but by first ensuring you have a cast iron way back to your existing setup if it doesn't work. There are many ways to do this but my suggestion would be:

1. Use Carbon Copy Cloner to make an entire bootable copy of your existing system drive to an external drive.
2. Boot to the external drive to ensure it is working.
3. Shutdown you machine, and unplug the external drive.
4. Boot up your machine as normal and upgrade it to El Capitan.
5. Try out all your software including FCP7, if it all appears to work, great, mission accomplished, but if it doesn't, just plugin in your backup drive, reboot to it, and carbon copy clone it back to your original system drive.

A variation on this would be to create a blank bootable drive and install a new copy of El Capitan (as opposed to upgrade), then install each of your software packages so you know whether you can get an El Capitan FCP7 system built from 1st principles. In every case, always ensure you have a full bootable backup of your existing system.

I personally have more than one bootable partition for this very reason so I can test myself what works and what doesn't, and I have an instant way back to a known working state. In my case I still have one or two things that need Rosetta, and therefore have a Snow Leopard Partition, but I find I boot into that less and less these days as 98% of my apps work in a higher OS version.

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

"it's either binary or it's not"


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Jason Scholder
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Dec 21, 2015 at 6:09:35 pm

Declan Smith. Wow. Thank you so much for this thorough response! I will try exactly what you said.

I found some videos that left me feeling hopeful. Here are the links. I'm assuming it's okay to share YouTube video links here, correct? There's no money it in.

Final Cut Pro 7 running v.happily on El Capitan Beta 2






Final Cut Pro 7 / Final Cut Studio 3 install on El Capitan Final Release






Take it easy!


Jason


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Martin Johnson
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Dec 28, 2015 at 10:14:36 pm

I've just upgraded from an early 2011 Macbook Pro to a new iMac, running El Capitan. (10.11.2)
FCP 7.0.3 has been my workhorse for almost 8 years and whilst I have the Adobe Creative Suite as well - I still prefer FCP. I upgraded my MBP to El Capitan before I bought the iMac.
I used my Time machine backup from my MBP to install all my programs onto the new iMac and part from one niggle - it all works fine.
Only problem is the colour picker doesn't seem to work. (Using it to set the white colour balance produces a weird colour). But I can just grade by eye anyway. Seems to work OK.
I take the points about using an old, outdated bit of software on a new system - but like some of those in teh forum, it's what works for me. Hope this helps.


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John Rofrano
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Dec 30, 2015 at 2:24:19 pm

[Martin Johnson] "Only problem is the colour picker doesn't seem to work."
That's interesting. I'm having a similar problem with DVD Studio Pro 4 in Yosemite. When I go to select the color for highlighting buttons all of the options are blank. That's the only thing that doesn't work for me and it makes it difficult to change the button highlights. This is why I keep a Snow Leopard partition in my 2010 Mac Pro so that I can boot into Snow Leopard and use DVD Studio Pro without any issues if needed. There must be something that changed about color in newer versions of OS X that has broken this seemingly simple feature of selecting colors. :(

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Roger Poole
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Dec 30, 2015 at 7:41:22 pm

The color pickers have been broken since Mavericks :o/


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Bobby Hall
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Jan 14, 2016 at 10:14:07 am

I noticed a problem with the font controls in FCP 7 in Yosemite. I installed the font "Bank Gothic Medium" in my font book and it shows up in my FCP 7 fonts, but when I type in the Controls tab, I don't see the text. It shows up in the video tab, but I can't see what I'm typing! Anyone know how to fix this?


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Erik Meyn
Re: FCP 6-7 meets El Capitan
on Aug 21, 2016 at 12:19:49 am

FCP 7 works, but not properly. I am an 61 year old employee in the NRK in Oslo (we are "the BBC of Norway"). I can edit, but sometimes, when I attempt to export and/or save a project, the pop-up window for naming a file exists after a few seconds. I am not able to name (or rename) the file properly, but so far I have been able to save a file without naming it properly or choosing a path manually. I upgraded to El Capitan without a clean install. My iMac is five years old and of course I should have kept the machine as it was. Why I am using FCP7? It suits me. But, of course, now I´ll get a new machine. The NRK (Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation) have opted for Adobe Premiere and I know that my new life in 64 bit will allow me to use more than 4 GB RAM. Fine. But it´s still a tool. If I am drilling a hole in the wall, who wants to know if I am using Bosch or DeWalt? To people who are happy with FCP 7: Stay away from El Capitan and enjoy your work with what you´ve got. Cheers!

Erik Meyn
Journalist and TV director
Norwegian Broadcasting Corp. - NRK
NRK MUHA, N-0340 Oslo, Norway


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