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25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence

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Bobby Hall
25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 6:19:58 am
Last Edited By Bobby Hall on Sep 24, 2015 at 6:20:42 am

I'm editing a music video in FCP 7. All the footage is 23.98 fps, except for one take of the performance that was accidentally shot at 25 fps. I have a hard drive of all the 5k Red files, and a hard drive with all the files converted to 1920x1080 ProRes 23.98 fps.

The 5k 25 fps clip was converted to 23.98 so it plays slightly slower. What's the best way to make it play at the same speed as all the other 23.98 clips? Is there something I can do with the original 5k 25 fps clip using RedCine X Pro, or some other method? Thanks.


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Nick Meyers
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 7:23:38 am

copy the 23.976 file
open the copy into CinemaTools,
and "Conform" it to 25 fps.

it will now sync with the other clips,
however you wont be able to use it in a multiclip,
you'll have to layer that one clip, and extract the best moments.

the way FCP deals with the frame rate difference is crude: it simply drops one frame every second.
that may or may not be noticeable in your final edit
when you've done cutting, if any particular instance of the shot sticks out too much, you can replace it with the original that's paying a bit slow.

another approach is to use optical flow tools in compressor to squish the 25 frames into 24, but it's slow and could look weird.


nick


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Nick Meyers
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 7:46:47 am

i should add that these options sort of assume you are NOT going back to the RED footage,
as i don't think you can use those files in CT or Compressor.


nick


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Bobby Hall
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 11:40:20 am

How is that different from just changing the speed of the 23.98 ProRes clip in FCP? If I change is to 104% it plays at the correct speed, but I can see a frame drop every second.


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Nick Meyers
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 12:16:43 pm

good point!
it's not different.
that's probably a simpler way to go.


nick


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Shane Ross
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 3:56:35 pm

Once you put a 25fps clip into a 23.98 timeline...one frame is automatically removed, to conform it to the sequence. Even if you speed it up, as you noticed...that frame is gone. If you conform the clip BEFORE you add it to the timeline, in Cinema Tools, as mentioned, then that frame won't be missing.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bobby Hall
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 11:12:46 pm

Shane, so if I take the original 5k 25 fps Red clip and convert it to a 25 fps ProRes clip, then conform it to a 23.98 clip in Cinema Tools, I can put it in FCP and it'll play at the same speed as the other clips and not have any missing frames?


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Shane Ross
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 11:14:55 pm

It'll play at 23.98 fps, no missing frames...yes. But same speed? No. It'll be slower than normal. If this is a single camera project, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Multicamera...it'll be an issue.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bobby Hall
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 25, 2015 at 3:35:58 am

Why would I use Cinema Tools at all then? In my original post I said "The 5k 25 fps clip was converted to 23.98 so it plays slightly slower." You're suggesting steps that would result in a file I already have. I said that I wanted to make it play at the same speed as all the other files. If I can't have it play at the same speed and have no missing frames without paying money, then I'll just not use it.

The slower speed makes the clip pretty much unusable because it's a shot of a singer lip syncing to his song.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 25 fps clip in 23.98 sequence
on Sep 24, 2015 at 4:06:03 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Sep 24, 2015 at 4:11:42 pm

It seems like a tiny-little frame rate oopsie, but it's a Right Royal Pain In The Neck to fix. Probably expensive, too.

Why so painful? You have to eliminate approximately one frame every second.... but where do you eliminate that frame so the motion doesn't jump around? Hmmmm.....


Here's the key question: How good does this have to look?

Jumpy in spots? Use the 25fps footage in a 23.976 (aka 23.98) timeline. Know that you can't multicam this footage -- it won't happen.

Pretty good? You can do a frame rate CONVERSION on the footage using Compressor... Shane Ross has described how to do it many times in this forum. It takes a long time. You're converting 25 to 23.976 -- you're changing the frame rate, but not the speed -- and there's a lot of figuring to be done. You're not conforming, which is dead simple but changes the speed.

Very Good? Go out and buy frame rate conversion software like Twixtor (approximately $600) to do the frame rate conversion. It doesn't take as much time as Compressor, and it looks better.

Dead-Solid Perfect? Go with hardware frame rate conversion. Lots of places can do it, but it will cost more than Twixtor, and of course, it a one-time-only deal.

So make your choice....

...and use this as a teaching moment for the dolt who didn't check the frame rate before shooting.

And remember: the REAL frame rate is NOT 23.98, it's 23.976.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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