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Editing with different frame rates

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Bobby Hall
Editing with different frame rates
on Jul 31, 2015 at 6:04:13 am

I want to edit in FCP7 using clips of different frame rates. Some clips are 23.98 and others 29.97. I thought it was a bad idea to mix frame rates in FCP7 because I thought it could potentially make the video out of sync, but I wanted to be sure so I asked an editor about this and he said:

"FCP 7 will render footage which does not match these project settings for frame rate or image size automatically, so there’s nothing you need to do, once you edit a clip into the timeline."

I wanted to get a second opinion about this because I could've sworn I read somewhere it's bad to mix frame rates in FCP7. Can someone tell me if it's okay to mix frame rates in FCP7? Thank you!


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Nick Meyers
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Jul 31, 2015 at 8:16:37 am

the main reason it's bad to do this in FCP7 is that it does such a bad job of handling the difference in frame rates.

i know that for mixing 24 and 25 fps footage it simply adds or deletes a frame every second.

Premiere Pro or Avid are both suposed to do a better job.


nick


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Jul 31, 2015 at 4:26:32 pm

What frame rate are you DELIVERING?

You ahould also know that in a 29.97 timeline, FCP doesn't do a proper 3:2 pulldown on the 23.976 footage. Instead of a 3-2-3-2 frame pattern, it will do a 2-2-2-4 pattern. You'll see a hitch in the motion.

Yes, FCP can ACCOMMODATE mixed frame rates. That doesn't mean it works well with them.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Shane Ross
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Jul 31, 2015 at 5:06:19 pm

As stated, FCP doesn't mix frame rates well at all...pulldown isn't added or removed properly, so you get stuttery playback on all non-native frame rate footage.

The best conversion, given these choices, is to convert 23.98 to 29.97 interlaced. And you do that in Compressor...I can post settings if you want. Because Compressor will blend the footage properly, like TV shows shot on film, or films transferred to tape are done, proper mixing of extra frames into the fields of the 29.97 interlaced frame rate. So that means that you'll have to deliver 29.97 interlaced.

BUT...if your footage is 29.97 progressive, or aimed at web only release where the web doesn't do interlacing...there is no good solution. Well, there is, but it costs some money, and takes a lot of time. You'll need to use After Effects and Twixtor to convert the footage.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bobby Hall
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Jul 31, 2015 at 11:43:20 pm

Hi Dave,

I can deliver the video at any frame rate I want. I just wanted to know what would look good. The video I'm making is a 3-minute reel composed of shots from various other clips, some of which are 29.97 fps and others 23.98 fps.

I wanted to know if I should convert one of those frame rates to the other, and if so, can I use MMPEG Streamclip or is Compressor better? Or is there some type of sequence settings I can use to avoid having to spend the time converting? Thanks.


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Shane Ross
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Aug 1, 2015 at 12:22:46 am

Where is this destined to end up? TV? Web? Workflow is based on the deliverable. If the Web, then this will get difficult, if DVD, or TV...this will be easy.

And NEVER use MPEG STREAMCLIP to convert frame rates. It sucks at it. Compressor is the best bet for that.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bobby Hall
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Aug 1, 2015 at 12:49:53 am
Last Edited By Bobby Hall on Aug 1, 2015 at 5:33:04 am

Hi Shane,

This video will be on the web. Some of the footage is 1080p, some 720p, and some 640p. Some of the 1080p footage is 23.98 fps and some is 29.97.

The final video doesn't have to look stupendous. Most of this footage was shot with an iPhone and is very amateurish. I just wanted to be able to edit all this without it getting out of sync (I don't know if that's a possible consequence of mixing frame rates) and without much noticeable stutter.

I also wanted to know if it's okay to put everything in a 1920x1080 sequence or if 1280x720 would be a bit better (I'm assuming 640p footage looks less bad in a 1280x720 sequence than a 1920x1080 one...?) I don't really care if the crappier footage gets blown up since there's not that much of it. I just want the HD stuff to look good.

edit: Shane, when you said "...pulldown isn't added or removed properly, so you get stuttery playback on all non-native frame rate footage."- does this mean I get stuttery playback during the editing process, or in the final exported video? Thanks.


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Shane Ross
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Aug 1, 2015 at 1:40:38 pm

That means a slight stutter everywhere. When editing, and when exporting.

Ok, best to edit in a 29.97 progressive sequence. 1920x1080. 23.98 footage will skip a little, bit itll look better than 29.97 in 23.98 with frames removed. 720p will scale nicely with little quality loss.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bobby Hall
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Aug 1, 2015 at 6:33:23 pm

Would that look better than converting the 23.98 files to 29.97 in Compressor before editing, or would there not be a noticeable difference?


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Shane Ross
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Aug 1, 2015 at 9:35:55 pm

23.98 progressive to 29.97 progressive...no difference in how FCP handles it or compressor. They will do the same thing. So just edit them in FCP, no converting

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bobby Hall
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Aug 2, 2015 at 3:50:36 am

Since the 23.98 footage skips a little in a 29.97 sequence, does that mean the audio will also skip?


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Shane Ross
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Aug 2, 2015 at 5:10:17 pm

NO, audio will not skip, or lag.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bobby Hall
Re: Editing with different frame rates
on Aug 3, 2015 at 3:39:54 am

Thanks a lot Shane!


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