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Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster

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Pedro Miguez
Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 23, 2014 at 11:22:20 pm

Hi folks,

Sorry if this question has been dealt with in the past, I can’t find clarification on this anywhere…

I am currently in the middle of shooting a TV series with the F5. We are shooting 23.98fps, and the production company is editing in a 29.97 timeline on FCP.

Recently the production company received word from the broadcaster’s engineers complaining about issues with the playback of the episodes due to it having been shot at 24p (especially noticeable on shots with a lot of camera movement). It was minor and slightly noticeable, and I didn’t quite understand what the production house did, but apparently the practical solution they found was to apply a slow effect of 1% to the whole edit on every single episode.

Now the production company wants to deal with it differently going forward, they want to shoot everything at 30p or 29.97 so they won’t have this issue anymore.
I feel like this is not the best solution, but I don’t know how to remediate this problem they are facing with footage recorded at 24p. Surely there must be a right solution to this, as I am sure a lot of footage that’s broadcast on TV is shot at 24p and broadcast flawlessly.

Can anyone point me to the correct solution to this problem? Thank you very much in advance!


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 24, 2014 at 1:56:32 am

If the client wants 29.97, and is cutting at 29.97, then shoot at 29.97. Progressinve is fine. It's a no-brainer.

Just don't get yourself into a hot mess with FCP bymising frame rates. It's guaranteed to give you trouble later on if you drag your heels on the topic.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Shane Ross
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 24, 2014 at 11:54:52 pm

[pedrogouveia] "We are shooting 23.98fps, and the production company is editing in a 29.97 timeline on FCP. "

Well, they goofed. That was the wrong wrong wrong thing to do. That's why stuff looked bad. FCP doesn't remove pulldown properly.

What you need to do...if you are shooting 23.98 but delivering 29.97...is edit the 23.98 on a 23.98 timeline, and then output 29.97...using hardware that will do it properly. I do this all the time. WE output to tape via an AJA Kona 3, and that output is 29.97, and it looks fine.

[pedrogouveia] "t was minor and slightly noticeable, and I didn’t quite understand what the production house did, but apparently the practical solution they found was to apply a slow effect of 1% to the whole edit on every single episode.
"


And then they go and do this...making it much worse. Nope...sorry. They didn't have someone there who know how to do things properly, and seemed to guess at the solution. And guess incorrectly. The production company and whoever advised them is completely at fault here.

It is very normal to shoot 23.98 and deliver 29.97. NO need to shoot 29.97 unless you want that look, or unless the network demands that frame rate. And many do. If you shoot 23.98 and need to deliver 29.97...then you just need to make sure you do things right. 23.98 sequence, and output with proper hardware.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Daryl K Davis
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 25, 2014 at 4:23:04 pm

As Shayne said, shoot 24p & edit 24p and deliver to whatever Broadcaster specs are. 24p is international mastering format so much better to output PAL from that as well. That is how every major movie and TV series is done that has International distribution specs.

-------------------------
DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
-------------------------


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Daryl K Davis
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 25, 2014 at 4:23:50 pm

Apologies to Shane for mis-spelling your name...

-------------------------
DK Davis / Editor/ Post Super
-------------------------


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Shane Ross
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 25, 2014 at 5:22:37 pm

Whatever...no worries. At least you didn't call me Sean. or Shawn...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Pedro Miguez
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 29, 2014 at 5:41:28 pm

Thanks for the info guys!

What I had not mention is that the broadcaster also wants a 29.97 interlaced final delivery.
What´s the proper way of outputting an interlaced file from progressive footage. We captured most of the series in 23.98p, but moving forward it will be 29.97p. The production house is using a BlackMagic UltraStudio 4K for capture and playback.

Thanks!



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Shane Ross
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 29, 2014 at 11:51:11 pm

When you output to 29.97, it will be interlaced by default. And that's really the only way to make 24p convert smoothly to 29.97...by spreading out the duplicate frames between fields. Google 3:2 pulldown for more details on that. So it does it automatically, and all will be fine. I've been doing 23.98 shows out to 29.97 interlaced for a decade now.

And why moving forward are you going 29.97p? The network wants interlaced, so why go progressive? Or, if they are cool with the 23.98 look, but with the 29.97 delivery...keep doing that. It's a fairly standard practice.

You really need to hire a post supervisor who knows this stuff, or go to a post house with experience doing this.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Pedro Miguez
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 30, 2014 at 2:06:10 am

Hi Shane,

Thanks for the comments, but I didn't get "why go progressive". As far as I'm aware, when shooting XAVC on the F55, I can only shoot progressive. I love the 24p look, but the broadcaster doesn't care, they want deliveries in 29.97 interlaced. The producer doesn't care how it looks either, they just wanna give the broadcaster what they want. I'll google the 3:2 pulldown as you suggested. Thanks!



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Shane Ross
Re: Issues delivering 24p footage to broadcaster
on Nov 30, 2014 at 4:28:54 am

Curious as to why go 29.97p. Why not stick to 24p and just output a 29.97 master? I guess for ease of workflow on your end....

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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