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Choppy Playback From GH4 footage

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Jake Reeves
Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 15, 2014 at 11:33:17 pm

I'm used to solely editing footage from a 5D. It never gave me many issues save for the occasional stutter after I had layered effects/text/etc… I got a GH4 and a GoPro… all hell has broken loose on my non-tech savvy brain. (it should be noted as exposition that I was actually intended to be born about 214 years ago which would have put me coming of age during the prime of Mountain Men in the western U.S. and I would have been able to excel… unfortunately God is perfect but the angel in charge of babies is not and he left me in a vault WAAAAY past my intended birth date. He remembered sometime in early 1984… So here I am as a videographer. Oops)

Anyway, I ran the GH4 clips through mpeg stream clip for ProRes 422 conversion. Was that right or stupid?
Where I am having the most trouble is GH4 clips shot at 1080/60. The timeline hates them.
All sequence settings/clip settings seem to match..

I have two WD Cloud Drives. Two WD Passports. One WD portable passport.

Pretend I am a technical idiot (thats "technical idiot" not "technically an idiot") and walk me through a ground up set up. Including hard drives. Which I should be working off of (Yeah I know, a RAID a RAID, but thats not what I have so go off of what I have)… where capture scratch should be. And workflow for getting this footage in correctly. My head may explode soon. Thanks in advance.

-me

P.S. If it takes you being brutally mean to give me clarity…I'm so fine with that.


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 1:09:51 am

[Jake Reeves] "Anyway, I ran the GH4 clips through mpeg stream clip for ProRes 422 conversion. Was that right or stupid?"

Right...

[Jake Reeves] "Where I am having the most trouble is GH4 clips shot at 1080/60. The timeline hates them. "

FCP 7 isnt designed for 1080p60. FCP is designed for broadcast formats, and DVD formats. 1080p60 is neither. The frame rate at that frame size isn't a deliverable anywhere. Web doesn't do it, TV doesn't, BluRay doesn't. The data rate for that is HUGE. You also need better hard drives than Firewire 800, or USB. eSATA...internal secondary SATA...Thunderbolt. A RAID even better. That's a lot of data to try to play back. That's one reason it isn't a standard. 720p60 is...but the frame size is smaller, so the data rate equals that of 1080i60 (that runs at 30fps.

But the main reason is that FCP and 1080p60 don't really match. That and you need a very fast RAID to deal with the footage.

[Jake Reeves] "I have two WD Cloud Drives. Two WD Passports. One WD portable passport. "

Those aren't good enough for this footage. Not one bit. You need Something like this:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/External-Drive/OWC/ThunderBay-4

or this...(via eSATA)

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax

RAIDED drives with a fast connection. ProRes 1080p60 is a HUGE data rate. Way too much for the drives you have.

[Jake Reeves] "(Yeah I know, a RAID a RAID, but thats not what I have so go off of what I have)"

Then you need to get one. I hope you have Thunderbolt connectors, because that's the best option.

But MPEG STREAMCLIP is fine.

Why shoot 1080p60? You can't deliver that format? Why not shoot something you can deliver? Unless you mean to slow down that footage to be ultra slow at 1080p30. In which case, you need to do that before you edit too. so it's 1080p30.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 3:38:39 am

Shane thanks for being thorough. I did convert the footage to 24 in Streamclip. It was shot at 60. Converted to/for 24 in Streamclip.


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:01:42 am

WAIT...WHAT? No no no no no. Do not convert the frame rate in MPEG STREAMCLIP. No no no. I'll wager that's why it's choppy. Don't do that. Don't even in FCP. If you want 23.98, shoot 23.98. Why are you shooting 60p if you want 24p? No...you have to edit at 1080p60. Removing frames that way doesn't work right.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 2:14:55 pm

Oh geez. Shane can you email me at ghostsingray@gmail.com?


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 4:21:05 pm

Sorry...I don't do one on one unless it's consulting, and that I charge for. I like keeping things here so that people can benefit from the advice given. You aren't the only one doing what you did...just so you know. Others who might do this in the future would benefit from finding this in a google search.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 4:51:48 pm

Fair enough. So, lets say I have a timeline/project that is predominately 24p footage but I have several shots from a GH4 that I shot in 60 and am using for slow motion. How do I incorporate those into that timeline?


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 4:53:27 pm

First, convert them to ProRes 422, as 1080p60, with MPEG STREAMCLIP. Then, use CINEMA TOOLS to conform the footage to 23.98...like I show in this tutorial:

http://library.creativecow.net/ross_shane/slow-motion_cinema-tools/1

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:09:11 pm

Ok. I just skipped Cinema Tools. I did it in my head… I guess there isn't really a way to convert to 24 in Streamclip, at least not where I see, but in my head, I had done that. So now I need to take them through Cinema Tools and into FCP.


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:10:34 pm

You feel pretty good about the OWC Thunderbay 4TB?
We are talkin' weddings and small commercial projects, some small narratives.


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:15:15 pm

Yup...I took one for a test drive. Even weddings can have lots of footage, and if you are shooting 1080p60, space can fill up fast. And I love RAID 5 protection.

http://lfhd.net/2014/09/15/thunderbay-4-review/

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:36:19 pm

Great. I really appreciate all the help. I'll update after I run things through Cinema Tools and back into the project. I had already organized and named the clips in FCP. I guess I'll have to redo that…well worth it though.


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:38:39 pm

One (hopefully only one) other question: once they are batch conformed in Cinema Tools, do I drag and drop into FCP or Log and Transfer? I bet thats in that tutorial link I'm about to watch… ;)


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:41:01 pm

Drag and drop. Once the footage is ProRes, Log and Transfer isn't needed. That's only for converting the footage from camera masters. You already did that.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:41:54 pm

Great. Going to watch the tutorial anyway. Thanks again.


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:49:27 pm

Still really choppy.

I guess its just the hard drive?


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:50:38 pm

So the slow motion isn't smooth? Does it play back choppy in Quicktime too?

Might be the hard drive. What connection do they sport? and how fast are they? 5400 or 7200?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 5:56:09 pm

Choppy in QT but not as bad. It would actually stop in the FCP timeline. Didn't really stop in QT, just choppy.


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:02:45 pm

Oh and a lot of this is 90fps… which I assume is an even harder workload to handle.


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:08:16 pm

90FPS!?! How was that shot? WHY was that shot? Yeah...that's an even higher data rate...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:12:39 pm

GH4's have 1080/90fps.

I wanted it ultra slow. So, if you wanted something that slow, how would you shoot it?


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:13:44 pm

OK...ultra slow. Then it's a good choice. Now just need drives to handle it.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:23:43 pm

Sigh… well, my cheap ass has been putting it off long enough. I figure its like toilet paper… you could get by without it, but man, its so much better going through life sans-dingleberry.


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:27:57 pm

So is there any way to limp along in FCP until I get the thunderbolt in? Or, rather, make the limping more bearable?


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 9:41:46 pm

If you don't mind the skipping, then you can limp along. A FW800 RAID would work, but Thunderbolt is future proof, and MUCH MUCH faster.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 17, 2014 at 1:28:34 pm

Lately when I open FCP I get a message saying one of my scratch discs can't be found. Its the one that I am operating off of. I click "check again" and it almost always clears… any idea of what is causing this?


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 17, 2014 at 1:29:35 pm

Correction.

It says it does not have read/write access


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Jake Reeves
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:11:22 pm

And Shane, I don't know, they don't list it anywhere and a quick Google search didn't help clarify much. I'm guessing its just a lack of performance and logic on my own part. Anything on these Cloud drives is going to be slow due to the connection, I'm guessing at least….


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Robert Withers
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:01:32 pm

Shane, thanks for your contributions and tutorial. I too stupidly shot an event at 1080p60 on a Sony RX10 that I wasn't very familiar with. It produced .mts files. The producer needs to edit in her FCP7 with either 24 fps or 30 fps. I will try the workflow you describe with MPEG Streamclip and Cinema Tools. Does that make sense?

Robert Withers

Independent/personal/avant-garde cinema, New York City


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Shane Ross
Re: Choppy Playback From GH4 footage
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:04:08 pm

Ah...AVCHD 1080p60. FCP won't L&T it, and MPEG STREAMCLIP won't work with mts files. For this you need Clipwrap2 from DivergentMedia.com. That will convert to ProRes...designed to work with AVCHD.

Now, unless you want the footage to be slow motion, I'd skip Cinema tools, and edit the footage normally in FCP. Either use a 1080p30 sequence, or 1080p60 sequence.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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