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FCP7 - Editing Film in True 24 vs 23.98

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taylor levy
FCP7 - Editing Film in True 24 vs 23.98
on Aug 29, 2014 at 4:32:00 pm

Hi folks, thanks in advance for any help.

I am starting on an feature film shooting 35mm film with a few bits of various digital formats and editing in FCP 7.

The question is what settings should we cut in.

Our current plan is make Pro Res Proxy 1920x1080 @ 24fps dailies from the films shot at 24 and the sound recorded at 24. And then cut them in FCP 7 with the sequence set to 24fps.

But that worries me when we incorporate the digital footage. I'm not sure on the digital camera yet so I'm not positive of there capabilities, i.e frame rates.
I am sure that whatever they shoot can be made into 23.98 for editorial, but I'm not sure if they can be made into 24fps media that will match the film (and the sound for that matter)

I've don'e 35mm shows before in FCP but the media was always 23.98.
But everyone on this show is pushing the 24fps workflow.

Am I right in thinking a true 24fps work flow end to end is best. Or is working in 23.98 best until the conform?
We are definitely going to make DCPs and a film out is a legitimate possibility.
Please let me know if I'm missing something here or if you have any experience with this type of workflow.

-Thanks again


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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP7 - Editing Film in True 24 vs 23.98
on Aug 29, 2014 at 5:53:18 pm

With Final Cut Pro, the best advice is this:

FIND A COMMON FRAME RATE. (The Tough Part; can't help you there, that's research)
SHOOT EVERYTHING IN THAT FRAME RATE.
EDIT IN THAT FRAME RATE.
FOR UNEXPECTED, ARCHIVAL OR DONATED FOOTAGE, DO ANY NECESSARY FRAME RATE CONVERSIONS TO EDIT IT IN THE FRAME RATE YOU CHOSE.


And know that 23.98 is just a nickname for the actual frame rate, 23.976... forget that factoid at your peril.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Nick Meyers
Re: FCP7 - Editing Film in True 24 vs 23.98
on Aug 29, 2014 at 6:35:02 pm

It's easy to conform your 23.976 assets to true 24fps in CinemaTools

Nick


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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP7 - Editing Film in True 24 vs 23.98
on Aug 29, 2014 at 8:00:45 pm

True, but not always the best policy.

For example, if they choose to use a video camera in conjunctions with a film camera -- and record second-system lip sync audio -- the video will drift slowly out of sync if it's conformed.

Sure, it's far easier to conform, but since we don't know all the aspects of the project, it's best to prepare for the worst and advise frame rate conversion.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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taylor levy
Re: FCP7 - Editing Film in True 24 vs 23.98
on Aug 29, 2014 at 11:25:30 pm

Thanks for all of you help guys!

We have decided to work in FCP 7 with 24fps project and sequence settings.

Turns out all the digital cameras can and will shoot 23.98, and will never be running simultaneously with the film cameras.

When we shoot digital we will also run sound at 23.98 (48khz).
After syncing the clips, they will be converted to 24fps for editorial dailies.

Sound like a decent plan of attack?


Thanks again,
-Taylor


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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP7 - Editing Film in True 24 vs 23.98
on Aug 29, 2014 at 11:53:55 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Aug 29, 2014 at 11:55:15 pm

As long as you do a frame rate CONVERSION on the 23.976 files to 24 fps, you will be okay.

If you simply CONFORM the 23.976 files to 24, you'll be certain to run into trouble.

Don't conform. Convert. There's a big difference.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Nick Meyers
Re: FCP7 - Editing Film in True 24 vs 23.98
on Aug 30, 2014 at 1:01:20 am

yes: converting will give you picture artefacts, comforting wont!

for me, conforming is the way to go, but you need to adjust your sync on the audio.
a simple approach to this is if the sound you shoot with the video is not more than 2 tracks.

then you can sync your rushes, link & batch export, creating new media that you conform to 24fps.
you can do a similar thing with multi-track audio, it just gets a bit tricker in FCP.


nick


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