FORUMS: list search recent posts

Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Alexander Freedman
Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Apr 27, 2014 at 9:39:27 pm

Hello all,

It's the age-old question and I apologize ahead of time for asking it again.

I recently shot a wedding video at 60fps because I knew I'd be slowing down some clips using FCPX "Conform Speed" during editing. I made my project settings for 60fps, slowed down the moments I wanted to, and have just finished the highlight video. Now, it hits me, I'd like to export a 60fps and 24fps version so I can see the difference between a normal and "cinematic" look.

I know most people change fps before they edit, so is it too late for me? I've read on the forums I can make a new project storyline with 24fps settings and copy everything over. Is that the best way or can I export a master copy of my 60fps and use compressor to change it to 24fps?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!


Return to posts index

Steve Eisen
Re: Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Apr 27, 2014 at 11:04:15 pm

Wrong workflow!

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Creative Pro Users Group


Return to posts index

Ryan Holmes
Re: Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Apr 28, 2014 at 1:07:45 am

Do I have this right?

So you shot at 60fps, edited at 60fps, slow-mo clips were at 60fps, and delivery is 24fps?

Ideally you'd have shot the majority of your work at 24fps, edited at 24fps, clips you'd like to slow-mo would've been shot at 60fps (and then conformed to 24fps using Cinema Tools, creating a smooth and seamless slowmo - know as over cranking), and then your delivery would be at 24fps.

In your question, you're going to take 60fps and attempt to reduce it to 24fps. Depending on what/how you shot this will have varying levels of success. I don't know that either way you listed is better than the other. Likely just try them both and see what results you get. Which I think is what my colleague is saying with his post: [Steve Eisen] "Wrong workflow!"

If you want to see what 24fps looks like, then shoot your events at 24fps.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


Return to posts index


Alexander Freedman
Re: Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Apr 28, 2014 at 4:30:59 am
Last Edited By Alexander Freedman on Apr 28, 2014 at 4:32:55 am

Thanks for taking the time to respond Ryan.

I'm sorry I wasn't as clear as I should have been in my previous post.

Yes, everything was shot at 60fps. My reasoning behind this was because, to my knowledge, video shot at 60fps will stay sharper or have better image quality when slowed down by any amount, compared to video shot at lower FPS aka the higher the FPS the better the slow motion?

Since I was one-man-banding the wedding, working two cameras, I knew there would be candid moments of the couple I'd want to capture and slow down later in post, so the idea of shooting at 24fps made me worry about how that slow motion would turn out. I'm aware of over cranking but, being a run-and-gun kind of event, I knew I wouldn't have time to stop and change camera FPS rates, especially if I saw a candid moment and only had seconds to capture it, so I decided to shoot it all at 60fps - just in case. Am I going about this completely wrong lol?

In post, I edited on a FCPX timeline with 60fps settings because I wasn't sure which clips I'd want to slow down until I got to that point in the creative process. I only want selected clips slowed, maybe to 40% (which I thought was close to a 24fps look) and I slowed them using the Retime/Conform feature in FCPX. Encoding all clips to 24fps before importing them for post would have slowed them all down, no?

After making all my edits and liking what I saw at 60fps I thought to myself, "I wonder if I'd prefer cinematic feel of 24fps rather than 60fps?" Which brought me to the forums to find out if it was too late to make a 24fps version with no or minimal image loss?

I'm sorry if I have the whole FPS - slow motion concept backwards lol


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Apr 28, 2014 at 4:47:26 am

[Alexander Freedman] "My reasoning behind this was because, to my knowledge, video shot at 60fps will stay sharper or have better image quality when slowed down by any amount, compared to video shot at lower FPS aka the higher the FPS the better the slow motion?"

That is incorrect. Higher frame rate doesn't mean sharper image. Well...in ONE way it does. Less "image blur" can occur, or perceived image blur. But that really depends on the shutter speed. Given the same shutter speed, a frame of 60fps will be as sharp as the same frame, same camera shot at 24fps. The clarity is perceived.

You really should have done this the way Ryan outlined. That's the only way you can get smooth slow motion. Plus, there is no distribution method for 60fps. DVD's don't do 60fps, BluRay doesn't do 60fps...the web doesn't do 60fps. TVs only display 30fps...except for those networks that air 720p60...which is a lower resoltion format. 1080 has a standard frame rate of 30fps...but 24fps is common too.

[Alexander Freedman] "Which brought me to the forums to find out if it was too late to make a 24fps version with no or minimal image loss?"

You can export a 60fps master, and then convert that with Compressor to 24fps...with no loss. And 60fps converts to 24fps pretty well.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Alexander Freedman
Re: Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Apr 28, 2014 at 1:03:01 pm

Thanks for the clarification Shane!

Well, I've certainly learned from all this and I appreciate the guidance. I'll just run the 60fps master through compressor to 24fps and, in the future, shoot at 24fps or 30fps.

Thanks again!


Return to posts index


Ryan Holmes
Re: Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Apr 28, 2014 at 1:46:28 pm

[Alexander Freedman] "Well, I've certainly learned from all this and I appreciate the guidance. I'll just run the 60fps master through compressor to 24fps and, in the future, shoot at 24fps or 30fps."

Fine approach. But if you want smooth slow-motion you'll need to shoot at a higher frame rate than your timeline/delivery. That's called overcranking the camera. So you shoot the scene at 60fps, but you play that back at 24fps which gives you smooth slow motion. If you shoot at 60fps and playback at 60fps you're not gaining the advantage of over cranking. Essentially what FCP will do when you slow down your 60fps on your 60fps timeline is attempt to create in-between frames to "slow down" your footage.

Maybe this will explain better:
http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/slow-motion-video

Basic rule of thumb:
Shoot at 24fps, edit at 24 fps, deliver at 24 fps (or substitute 30 or 60 in there). However, anything that demands smooth slow-motion you'll need to shoot at a higher frame rate than what you expect to edit and deliver in.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


Return to posts index

Alexander Freedman
Re: Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Apr 29, 2014 at 12:40:06 pm

Thanks for taking the time to lay it all out for me Ryan!

It's so great to have people like you and all the others that are so kind on the forum here.

Take care!


Return to posts index

rory sandhage
Re: Shot/Edited in 60fps... export as 24fps?
on Dec 1, 2014 at 12:55:08 am

so, set project settings in fcpx to intended output fps, as a basic rule of thumb? can't this be done prior to sending to compressor? i thought fcpx was non-destructive. thanks!


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]