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Edward Harby
Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Feb 18, 2014 at 10:50:12 am
Last Edited By Edward Harby on Feb 18, 2014 at 10:52:50 am

Hey guys, I edited a project with Prores proxy files. During the log and transfer phase, files were given filenames such as the project name, reel, then clip number.

The original footage was shot on a 5d. I'd like to reconnect the files back to the h264 files.

The big picture is... I'd like the transfer the project over to FCP X, but if I can get these files back to h264 that would be great, I know FCPX will handle the rest by creating optimized media and it's smoothing sailing from there. One solutions as to use davinci, but I don't want to lose the markers I have.

I would be using 7toX to transfer the sequence, and if I did that as-is, the proxy files would be treated as master files, which is bad. Very bad.


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Edward Harby
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Feb 18, 2014 at 1:21:44 pm

There's an app called retooled.net but it doesn't work for Maverick. Basically it can relink using the file's duration, which is really all I got since it's 5d footage (time code different from the source), and file names (log and transfer).


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Shane Ross
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Feb 18, 2014 at 2:19:39 pm

If you used LOG AND TRANSFER to convert the footage to Proxy, then all you need to do is select the sequence, go into the MEDIA MANAGER and use the MAKE OFFLINE option, use 30-60 frame handles. Then choose the quality you want to reimport the media. I suggest ProRes 422.

FCP 7 will not simply reconnect to the H.264 masters...Because FCP 7 doesn't work with H.264. And because the h.264 originals lack a lot of the metadata that FCP created when it made them, like REEL NUMBERS. Reel Numbers refer to the card name you gave to the card backup. Log and Transfer will find that and see that number and reimport the footage as ProRes 422, or whatever codec you chose.

It won't relink to the H.264 originals...sorry. That is something FCX will do, because it's a bit more advanced. But ProRes 422 will get you all the quality you can get from your 8-bit originals. And Resolve doesn't work with H.264 anyway...it doesn't like that format any more than FCP does...

Shane
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Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Sebastián Carazay
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on May 15, 2014 at 6:54:57 pm

hi Shane, excuse my poor english,
i'm working with the offline/online workflow because the huge of the original video material, but in some cases, with particular cards (backed up, of course) the LOG AND TRANSFER don't work at all: simply tells me that the clips are missing. Obviously i am watching those clips, the originals h264 do exist, but the FCP don't find. I wonder if there is a problem with the strucuture of the card, the .ctg file or the .cr2 files or what?
i really apreciate if you have a solve for this, i see you are a experienced guy in this métier…
thanks in advance

macpro osx 10.8.5
FCP 7.0.3
5d mark III original firmware


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Shane Ross
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jun 25, 2014 at 4:36:41 pm

[Sebastián Carazay] "i'm working with the offline/online workflow because the huge of the original video material, but in some cases, with particular cards (backed up, of course) the LOG AND TRANSFER don't work at all: simply tells me that the clips are missing. Obviously i am watching those clips, the originals h264 do exist, but the FCP don't find."

What camera? FCP doesn't log and capture with all cameras. It's been discontinued for 3 years now, and newer cameras won't be supported.

Shane
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Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Sebastián Carazay
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jun 25, 2014 at 6:36:31 pm

hi Shane,
the camera with the problem is 5D Mark III, and i've been investigating the folders with that particular error in LandT and i finded one coincidence in all of those: in those cards, i did open the h264 originals .movs in the AE for stabilization, and i presume that all of those cards have changed some of the internal structure (on the .ctg file or some like this)…
Have you ever heard some like that?
thank in advance!


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Shane Ross
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jun 25, 2014 at 6:49:47 pm

I don't know...not sure if it modifies the card structure. But, you are stabilizing and creating NEW files, right? because those files aren't the camera masters, that might be the cause. You need to import/convert, THEN stabilize.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Sebastián Carazay
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jun 25, 2014 at 7:40:45 pm

that's right, i import in AE, then stabilize, then export to ProRes in other folder… the folder with the original footage remains equal to the original… but for some reason, something changes in the background, and the folder can't be recognized by the Log and Transfer any more… hope this could help somebody .
thanks for your time!


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Arturo Dickson
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jun 25, 2014 at 10:38:56 am

Thats strange because ive been importing my 5d mark iii h264 masters directly on davinci to apply a general lut then export to ProRes to cut in FCP7 and it worked like a charm,i then do my final output from FCP7. I understand that this way files are only being compressed twice in the workflow.

Before i used to convert all to ProRes via mpeg streamclip, edit in FCP7, export xml for da vinci to do my grading then recompress to ProRes for relinking and then finally compressing for final output which is usually web.

Any thoughts?


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Shane Ross
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jun 25, 2014 at 4:35:21 pm

[Arturo Dickson] "Thats strange because ive been importing my 5d mark iii h264 masters directly on davinci to apply a general lut then export to ProRes to cut in FCP7 and it worked like a charm"

How is that strange? Because if you are exporting ProRes 422 or HQ...then you are working full res. If you export ProRes Proxy, and then online with Resolve, it is the one doing the tracking for you...so in essence IT is doing the "log and transfer."

[Arturo Dickson] " then do my final output from FCP7."

Ah...yes, then you are working full res.

[Arturo Dickson] "I understand that this way files are only being compressed twice in the workflow."

Yes...and that's the typical amount of compression in most workflows...a couple of times. Once to work high res, and once when you output.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Arturo Dickson
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jun 25, 2014 at 9:20:04 pm

You said above

"Resolve doesn't work with H.264 anyway...it doesn't like that format any more than FCP does..."

Thats what i meant by strange since it works fine for me when i dump h264 directly into resolve to apply a general LUT to correct the vision color picture style im shooting with, THEN i export the prores for editing in FCP7, export xml, final grade in da vinci and round trip.

The reason i commented on this is because the way i learned was to ALWAYS convert to ProRes before you do ANYTHING but da vinci seems to work fine with h264. Has anyone else tried it? will it make any difference to keep it in h264 for this step?

thanks,


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Arturo Dickson
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 5:22:47 pm

Ok I've been going back and forth with this and I just cant seem to find a proper workflow that is both time saving and best quality output for my canon 5d3 native h264.

im working on a 2014 imac i5 processor running 16gigs of ram.
I usually edit in FCP and now started grading in Davinci resolve lite 10

I've been reading about proxies and round tripping but still don't know if its even worth the converting time (i have A LOT of footage from shooting events).

Ideally i would like to cut the video in final cut then send to resolve to grade. Should i convert my CF cards all into ProRes right off the bat, edit video in fcp then export xml for resolve and bring in master files as well?

Or is creating low res proxies for relinking the original h264 masters better quality wise?

It all has to go back to FCP for final export correct? or can you export a final compression for delivery in Resolve?

I know i have to learn Resolve better but i haven't had the time and speaking of time, the clock is ticking!!

thanks in advance.


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Shane Ross
Re: Offline / Online workflow, reverting prores Proxies back to Original file (5d, h264)
on Jul 4, 2014 at 6:18:15 pm

[Arturo Dickson] "Should i convert my CF cards all into ProRes right off the bat, edit video in fcp then export xml for resolve and bring in master files as well?"

NO! First step is to back up the card to an archive drive. Either a RAID 1 or to TWO locations...two drives. This is your master footage...back it up!

THEN you convert to ProRes. If you are going to edit with FCP, you must use a ProRes editing codec...ProREs is the best option.

[Arturo Dickson] "Or is creating low res proxies for relinking the original h264 masters better quality wise?"

Not really. The only reason to offline/online and go through all that hassle is to save drive space. If you are low on space, can't fit all of the high res ProRes files onto it..and don't want to get more space, then offline/online is the way to go. If you want to keep things simple...get large drives to hold the footage at ProRes 422 quality. That's full res, and perfect for finishing.

[Arturo Dickson] "It all has to go back to FCP for final export correct? or can you export a final compression for delivery in Resolve?"

Your choice. Resolve is an end to end finishing tool. No need to go back to FCP.

[Arturo Dickson] "I know i have to learn Resolve better but i haven't had the time and speaking of time, the clock is ticking!!"

If you don't have time to learn Resolve....then either hire someone else who knows Resolve, or color grade on something you do know. Grade in FCP if you want...send to COLOR (unless you don't know it).

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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