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Workflow combining HDV 59.97i and HD - which way to go?

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Adam Wakeling
Workflow combining HDV 59.97i and HD - which way to go?
on Jan 28, 2014 at 5:32:59 am

Hi all,

Am in a real quandry here and wondering if anyone has advice or experience?

I've just upgraded kit to a PMW-F3 and am shooting 36 hours from now. The issue is a lot of footage already shot was at 59.97i HDV and it has to be used (have caputured in FCP7 to ProRes 422). Given that I have so much latitude with the F3, what is the best frame rate to shoot at to cause the least problems further down the line? For the record, the end doc is destined for PAL broadcast, though NTSC is also likely. Do I stick to 29.97fps with the F3 or shoot 25fps and convert the all the 29.97HDV to 25fps before editing? Last time I tried converting HDV 29.97 to 25, the jerky motion was terrible, no matter what high end cross conversion I tried in various post houses.

Thanks so much, any advice gratefully received.

Adam


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Workflow combining HDV 59.97i and HD - which way to go?
on Jan 28, 2014 at 3:47:03 pm

Match the footage you already shot. Do the frame rate conversion later, once the edit is complete.

FYI: the "jerky motion" you don't like is darned close to the "cinema frame rate motion" film school grads crave.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Adam Wakeling
Re: Workflow combining HDV 59.97i and HD - which way to go?
on Jan 28, 2014 at 4:58:44 pm

Many thanks Dave. In truth though, the jerky motion I got on my last film when converting from 59.94 to 50 was a disaster. I think I'll go down the 25p route to shoot from now on and use (and convert) as little of what was shot before - something has to give somewhere.


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Shane Ross
Re: Workflow combining HDV 59.97i and HD - which way to go?
on Jan 28, 2014 at 5:00:15 pm

I concur...shoot to match the footage already shot.

Next time you plan on shooting for both NTSC and PAL...shoot 23.98. It converts to 25pfs very easily, and to 29.97 with pulldown as well. Best format for national and international distribution.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Adam Wakeling
Re: Workflow combining HDV 59.97i and HD - which way to go?
on Jan 28, 2014 at 5:28:26 pm

Thanks Shane - but now I'm confused. Would it not make more sense to now shoot in 24p then, and convert the 59.94iHDV to 24p as well? If that suits best for international distribution in both standards, would that not be the simplest (and cheapest) way to convert and use what I already have shot? Sorry to go on about this, I really just want to get it right and not fall down further down the line. Is there no loss in conversion from 24p to 25p? Thanks again.

Adam


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Shane Ross
Re: Workflow combining HDV 59.97i and HD - which way to go?
on Jan 28, 2014 at 5:38:59 pm

No...shooting TWO different frame rates makes things more complicated, as FCP doesn't mix frame rates well. Stick to one, and do a professional conversion later.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Keith Slavin
Re: Workflow combining HDV 59.97i and HD - which way to go?
on Jan 30, 2014 at 2:21:37 am

Hi Adam,

Since you already have a lot shot at NTSC60 interlaced, and your final deliverables are both ntsc60 and PAL50 interlaced, and if you have fast motion in the scenes, then it is better to stick with shooting at ntsc60 interlaced, and editing in interlaced. Then do a final standards conversion from 1080i59.94 to 1080i50 if required.

The main reason for this is that higher field/frame rates (i.e. higher temporal sampling rates) require less motion blur, and convert to other rates with high quality. Using 24p avoids standards conversion (if you accept a 4% speedup to 25p in 50i), but is associated with more motion judder or motion blur.

1080i59.94 is the best capture candidate (other than 1080p59.94), as it gives the best quality conversion to any lower frame rate (50i/p, 48p, 30p, 25p and 24p, for example)! See more detailed discussion on the topic from http://www.isovideo.com/Shooting_FPV.php.

To avoid unpleasant motion judder when going to significantly lower temporal sampling rates, high quality simulated motion blur also needs to be added.

Our state-of-the-art Viarte server provides the best quality standards conversion available. The Viarte server was used for file-based Footage Conversion in two times Academy-Award winning director Ron Howard's "Made in America".

If you are interested in trying our conversion, please contact me at keith@isovideo.com.


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