FORUMS: list search recent posts

New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Eric Weiner
New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 6, 2014 at 8:24:19 pm
Last Edited By Eric Weiner on Jan 6, 2014 at 8:26:09 pm

So I'm looking at the new Mac Pros. We still use FCP 7 here, and the boss is asking me about upgrading our sliver machines to new mac pros. I'm thinking since FCP7 doesn't take advantage of multicore processing, it would be better investment for FCP7 machines to be the 4 core 3.7 ghz models. When you scale up the cores, it gets more expensive, but each core gets slower as well. Since FCP can only use one core, it seems to me that it makes more sense to use the machine with the fastest individual core for best performance. (In final cut 7, I would get higher core machine for our After Effect Graphics Systems.)

Does that make sense to anyone else?

Or should we just go with iMacs for FCP7 edit machines since they are even cheaper and include a pretty sweet monitor? That's what I use on my desk and it's super effective. Seems like a good place to have this dissuasion with other people who know a thing or two.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 6, 2014 at 9:23:09 pm

Personally, I'd get an iMac, and then install Mountain Lion on it, and not Mavericks. As Mavericks was written without FCP 7 taken into consideration at all. When you stick to older software, you need to also try to stick to older, supported OS versions that it was written for. This might also mean that you need to use older computers, as some cannot run the older OS, like the new Mac Pro.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Vincent Strader
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 6, 2014 at 10:11:45 pm

Interesting post, we're in the same position. With a municipal budget we move even slower with decisions. Once a purchase is made we're stuck with that purchase for a LONG time.

What I worry about is, if we do continue on the old route or getting an Imac (everything mentioned above) how long support will last?

Back around 2004 we were still clutching on to our Discreet *Edit. Discreet (Now Autodesk) completely dropped support for it and maintaining our turnkey became more difficult. Are Apples easier to maintain even after support as been dropped? Can you order an Apple without Maverick now that the OS is Maverick? Or do you have to go through an independent to make sure its upgraded just to that point where FCP7 still functions properly?

Everything is such a mess now, throw in Adobe Cloud and it's chaos. It's like somebody is trying to make things more difficult as an experiment.

Vinnie


Return to posts index


Declan Smith
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 7, 2014 at 12:09:33 am

And apple dropped Shake at a moments notice. It's annoying that the newer models don't support the older software. I think this is more of a marketing decision rather than a technical one.

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

"it's either binary or it's not"


Return to posts index

John Pale
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 7, 2014 at 1:43:25 am

"I think this is more of a marketing decision rather than a technical one."

Yep. It happens all the time. Apple loves playing that game. Until recently, everyone accepted as fact that the Mac Pro 1,1 and 2,1 could not run the 64 bit kernel and could never upgrade to Mountain Lion and Mavericks. Turns out some gamers figured out how to write a boot loader that bypasses the EFI limitation and those Mac Pros can run "pure" 64 bit no problem.


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 7, 2014 at 4:12:55 pm
Last Edited By Mark Suszko on Jan 7, 2014 at 5:21:16 pm

I too work for government, and we had Discreet Edit*. (sigh)(wistful look)

We're in a transitional period the same as you: we got new iMacs and moved over our copies of FCP 7, while the guys are starting to learn FCPX in their spare time. We have not yet officially decided between jumping from FCP7 to FCPX or to Premiere. The recent release of the updated FCPX 10.1 looks like it may now be worth looking into, and it's cheap at $300. You can download a free trial. What you need to tell the bean counters in your government is that the current software has been end-of-lifed for a couple of years now, and has no more support, so they need to budget for an upgrade in the coming fiscal.

FCP7 does currently work with Mavericks, to my continued amazement, but nobody should make a bet that that will always be so. You and I are working on borrowed time with FCP7, unless we decide to just freeze the OS where it is now and never upgrade. That *can* work, but eventually, it will begin to hobble your operations over time.

I think if you *must* stay with FCP 7, get iMacs instead of the Pro Tube, because you get a better price/performance ratio on a government budget, and FCP 7 can't really take much advantage of the pro's architecture. I saw iFixit's tear-down of the new Pro, and it looks easy to service or upgrade yourself, *provided* you get the proprietary graphic card upgrades from Apple.

The iMacs are also relatively easy to service for replacing an internal drive or something like that; the screen is held on with a little glue and some magnets - it pops off and there's the guts, ready to work on. I have had my home iMacs' internal drives serviced/replaced by a local PC shop, instead of an authorized Applecare dealer, and it was no problem at all.

With the imacs, we got Blackmagic ultrastudio 4K boxes with thunderbolt for our I/O system. Blackmagic gives you a free program to do your tape ingest and output management, for those of you who still have tape deck sources for editing. I have to say however that we haven't got that part of the new system working right yet, and the phone support from BMD has been courteous, but so far hasn't solved what's up.


Return to posts index


Elliot Choueka
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 14, 2014 at 7:00:56 pm

Hi Mark,

I'm interested to know what your experience has been of the UltraStudio 4K. We've got an AJA IOXT which is causing all sorts of problems and we're looking at moving over to Blackmagic.

Does anyone else have experience of the UltraStudio 4K?

Thanks.

Elliot


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 15, 2014 at 12:09:13 am

Well, frankly, we've gotten a little tired of AJA glitches in the shop, and my experience using the AJA IO controlling software has been... complicated. So all the refurbished edit bays got Ultrastudio 4k's.

I'm really kind of waiting to see what kind of support BMD is going to give. I posted what I thought was a simple question today and got nothing back yet.

The question was about getting the Ultrastudio4k to do machine control of a DVCProHD deck for ingest and recording back out to tape. We connect to the imac using thunderbolt, but from the Ultrastudio4k to the deck via SDI. We were looking al over the MediaExpress application to see if we can get machine control thru the SDI cable, but it's looking more and more like you can only do it using the RS-232-ish remote control port. I really just need a confirmation of that.


Return to posts index

Elliot Choueka
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 15, 2014 at 10:40:24 am

What's been your experience of using the Ultrastudio 4Ks?


Return to posts index


Charlie Austin
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 8, 2014 at 6:18:27 am

FWIW, FCP 7 runs great on new iMacs running Mavericks 10.9.1. Just make sure you have FCS Studio 3 install disks (and some way to mount them). Earlier FCPS installers won't work. I'd also pay close attention to every OS upgrade moving forward, as QTKit is now officially dead. One day they'll take it out completely (Like Rosetta) and 7 will cease to function. That said, currently, FCP 7 works really well with the latest Apple HW/SW.

But... you should switch to X. It works better... ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Roy Soetikno
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jan 30, 2014 at 5:12:12 pm

Charlie,

Would you please elaborate on what exactly is needed to install FCS Studio 3 on the new Mac Pro?

Thank you.


Return to posts index

Eric Weiner
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Mar 22, 2014 at 4:41:11 pm

I'll answer that question! But first an update, I've since purchased high end iMacs, and two high end Mac Pros.. They are mostly still shipping but we did get one iMac in this week. The iMacs will be for FCP7, and the Mac Pros are for our Graphics and 3D animation guy.

So here is how I install FCP Studio 3 on to the new iMacs.

There is not DVD drive on the iMacs, and I didn't get an external DVD drive. Instead, and I did this a long time ago, I've created disk images of all of the FCP install DVDs onto an external tech drive.

Since our place has about 7 edit bays, I am in a situation to have to clean wipe and re-install the needed software onto them on a fairly regular basics. So one day I grabbed a external 240GB portable drive with firewire 800 (starting to be a problem now) and split it into 6 different partitions. the first 5 had about 15 GBs and the last one had the remaining amount of space. Then I installed the latest mac systems on the first, tiger, leopard, snow leopard, and leave a space open for lion since that was coming out soon when I did this. That's been extremely helpful to me since I can attach it to almost any computer in the place and boot from it. These partitions aren't important to installing FCP, I just wanted to mention them because I thought it's a cool idea.

What is important to how to install FCP, or any other large DVD based application is what I did with the last partition and bit of space on the drive, I uploaded every major and small application or application installer I needed when I set up a computer from a fresh install. I also used to install Adobe Creative Suites before we moved to the cloud.

Here's how you do that. You need to have a mac that still has a CD/DVD drive. You mount each FCP studio 3 disk one at a time onto this computer, and open Disk Utility. (Disk Utility is in the utility folder in your application folder.) From there you select the DVD in the disk utility window and click the disk, the one that has the name of the disk, then click "new image" across the top. A save window pops up, and you want to select DVD/CD master for Image Format, and none for encryption. You then want to save this .img file to your dive. (or to you desktop and move over to a drive later) Do this for every disk, each disk will take a while, this whole process can take just a bit longer than installing FCP 3 from DVD.

But here is the pay off. Once you have all of the disk images on the hard-drive, you simply connect your hard-drive to your computer, open all of the .img files at once (they will mount disk images to you computer) and install FCP by clicking on the first disk. Besides the fact there is no dvd switching, the entire process speeds up from a 3 hour process where you have to constantly switch DVDS, to about 15-30 minute process where you don't have to do anything after you set up your install. For extra convenience, put a .txt file on there with your FCP serials so you don't have to go look though up separately.


On a different note, there is one problem with FCP Studio 3 and 10.9. The qmaster control panel doesn't work any more, meaning I can't seem to set up quick clusters in compressor any more. We didn't use the share over the network render options of Compressor, but we DID use quick cluster so that when making a H264 link it would split the file into several pieces and work on them all at once. This really speed up the speed of compression, about 4-5 times faster then if you just used "computer only" That option is gone from FCP Studio 3 and it's a pretty big blow for us really, we make links of 30 minute shows several times a day and it saved us a good 30 minutes a person at the end of the day in compression. I looked into a way to get it going again a month or so ago, I'll do another search to see if a solution has come up yet, but as far as I know it just doesn't work any more. I've spent about 4-5 hours looking for a work around using the Q-master application myself but Q-master doesn't seem to come up with the same options in 10.9 as what I see should be there from the manual. I'm going to need to look into other applications that speed up H264 transfers, and just take the speed hit when I transfer other footage to Pro Res for edit.

It's not something that completely breaks FCP Studio 3, but it's a sign that they are absolutely not concerned about making sure FCP7 work with the new systems, I'm guessing that the next operating system will no longer work with FCP7. I'm trying to get my boss to see that FCP7 days are numbered, not sure what we will move to. Premier, Avid, and FCP X are all options at this point. I'm leaning towards Premier since most of what we do comes out of AE anyway.


Return to posts index


Nina Hasin
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Mar 22, 2014 at 2:54:54 pm

Perfect question. I want to know this, too.

ninah


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Mar 22, 2014 at 4:36:09 pm

If I understand the recent chatter: You can't install FC3 (Final Cut PRO 7) into the Mavericks O.S., you have to first install it into an earlier OS like Mountain Lion, and then upgrade the OS into Mavericks.

An update on my Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K: It works now for machine control; there was a menu setting in the deck's menus that needed flipping. Still trying to solve an issue with entering clip names during ingest, but haven't had an opportunity to try the suggested fixes for that yet.


Return to posts index

Eric Weiner
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Mar 22, 2014 at 4:45:26 pm
Last Edited By Eric Weiner on Mar 22, 2014 at 4:48:59 pm

I just fresh installed FCP7 straight onto a fresh install of Mavericks yesterday using the method I just laid without a problem. I didn't realize this was an issue people were having trouble with.

Of course it's easy for me since I set up my tech drive install disk years ago, having to go get a hard-drive, and a mac with a DVD drive, and 3+ hours to move all of the DVDs to the drive is kind of a pain in the ass to install FCP7 once.

If you have an external DVD/CD drive attached to your iMac you can't install FCP7 the old fashioned way?

I should mention that the iMac I set up yesterday does not yet have my Black Magic Intensity Extreme or UltraStudio Express devices installed yet (Just ordered those they should be in next week) so there may still be a problem in Mavericks with that I just don't know about yet. (A problem other than the compressor issue which is a pain in the butt for sure...)


Return to posts index


Mark Suszko
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Mar 22, 2014 at 8:06:07 pm

What you're saying is interesting, Eric, because what I'd read was that there wasn't a way to install 7 directly into Mavericks, due to some missing support from Intel. Your method seems to contradict what I'd read. But to make it clear, are you really installing FCP7 directly in to a fresh install of Mavericks, or are you migrating a disk image of a Mavericks' system that already had FCP7 pre-installed from an OS Mountain Lion environment?


Return to posts index

Eric Weiner
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Mar 22, 2014 at 9:54:52 pm
Last Edited By Eric Weiner on Mar 22, 2014 at 10:07:11 pm

I did the first one, installing FCP7 directly in to a fresh install of Mavericks on a brand new 27 inch iMac. (The iMac came with Mavericks 10.9.2 installed, and I just went forward with that.)

Actually now that I think about it, I've done it twice. I did it last Friday at work, but I also installed FCP07 onto a fresh version of 10.9.0 last December on my brand new 27 inch iMac I bought for home as well. (Using the same Tech drive to do so.)

I have another personal main computer at work where I upgraded the system from Mountain Lion to Mavericks (did that in early 2013) as well, and that worked fine.

(Again, I have experienced the problem with compressor under Mavericks in all cases though.)

So I gather my experience so far does contradict what you have read before.

Oh, and so far I can only say this worsk for the new iMacs. I've ordered two mac pros but they don't ship until mid-april so there is a chance that FCP won't install on them for some reason I guess.


Return to posts index

Lisa Cannon
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Jul 9, 2014 at 9:58:06 am

Hi Eric,

Thank you for the workflow to install FCP 7 on Mavericks, as I'm running both, having upgraded from Lion. What happened with your new Mac Pros? Did the disk image install work? I'm currently editing a feature and nearing a rough cut, which will soon move into more intensive CPU needs and speeds for color correcting and such - I'll be wearing many hats as we move into later stages of post, and I need a new machine. ...that runs FCP 7, at least through the end of this year.

Fingers crossed (and fervently researching at 3 a.m. to know if the install worked on Mac Pro.) I'm considering the 8-core because of color and such (and simply investing in our future projects), as I know it wouldn't make an incredible difference for FCP 7.


Return to posts index


Steve Mullins
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on May 21, 2015 at 8:44:24 pm

i made disc images of all the fcs discs (back in 2010) i recently (april 2015) did a fresh install on yosemite - worked all find, apart from fx factory no longer working (which i use alot).

Just make disc images of the discs and double click, install them - you probably just need the apps which are 4gb in size so just deselect the media option


Return to posts index

Nilesh Mulye
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Feb 25, 2015 at 12:37:53 pm

Go ahead with mac desktop pro. It's fast. 4k editing & rendering speed is like working on 720x576 Dv format.
As well as color works fast for 4K resolution. COLOR IS NOT DEAD . I don't understand why Apple is not developing FCP 7 more like FCPx. But go for it. You will be happy.


Return to posts index

Declan Smith
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Feb 25, 2015 at 3:53:41 pm

When you say "COLOR IS NOT DEAD" is that based on some new information ? or just a comment that it still works functionally ???

I have just got my 2009 MacPro 4.1 back from an upgrade of processors,memory, graphics card and SSDs. It's extremely fast, in fact within about 2% of the equivalent brand new MacPro but for a heck of a lot less money!!. Render times are at least half what they were.

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

"it's either binary or it's not"


Return to posts index


Nilesh Mulye
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on Mar 2, 2015 at 9:23:58 am

Dear Mr. Declan Smith,

Sorry for late reply. I'm not a net savvy person.
I'm an editor from 1994. I started my carrier as -ve cutter. So i'm very much familiar with every application of Post Production. From August 2014, I'm color grading 4K advertisement, av's, Films. I like one thing about Apple color is that it works with available card & gives best result than any color grader. There are some pro & cons in every apps. But Apple color is Best.

Thanks
Nilesh Mulye


Return to posts index

Mickey Power
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on May 21, 2015 at 12:47:19 am

Hi Declan

When you say you got your 09 MP upgraded, what was done to it in the way of processor and graphics card? I've got a 3.3ghz 6 core MP which I'm hoping to upgrade (already have lot of RAM and an SSD).

Mickey


Return to posts index

Declan Smith
Re: New Mac Pro and FCP7 reality check
on May 21, 2015 at 7:44:14 am

Hi Mickey,

All upgrades are relative to your starting point. The details of before and after my upgrade are below:

My 2009 MacPro started as this:

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro4,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.26 GHz
Number of Processors: 2
Total Number of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per Processor): 8 MB
Memory: 24 GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 5.86 GT/s

With the standard GT 120 video card and the following:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570:
VRAM (Total): 1280 MB


Following the upgrade:
Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro5,1
Processor Name: 6-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3.46 GHz
Number of Processors: 2
Total Number of Cores: 12
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per Processor): 12 MB
Memory: 64 GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 6.4 GT/s

With graphics card:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN
VRAM (Total): 6144 MB

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

"it's either binary or it's not"


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]