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Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422

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John Moreno
Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 19, 2013 at 6:22:56 am

I am looking for advise / thoughts on digitizing / capturing Mini DV as ProRes 422.

I am looking to edit old Mini DV footage with HD footage captured at 4:2:2. I know Mini DV is SD and I know HD quality is much better but regardless I will need to have SD footage & HD footage living together.

I have tried researching all over and have seen very few scattered comments with regards to digitizing and so my question is:

What would be the settings to digitize Mini DV as ProRes 422, do I need to invest in a separate capture / conversion device such as an AJA box or should I Digitize as DV NTSC 23.98 and transcode / convert to ProRes 422 after capture?

Any professional thoughts from technical editors are highly appreciated as I have hit some snags trying to figure out what my FCP settings should be.

Mini DV recorded via Panasonic DVX @ 24p
Sony DSR-25 Deck (firewire)
Macbook Pro 17"
FCP 7


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Rafael Amador
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 19, 2013 at 11:26:50 am

there is no advantage on digitizing DV as Prores unless you upscale on capturing (if you gonna use it on an HD sequence), and to do that, yes, you need an AJA, BlackMagic or similar.
Rafael


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John Moreno
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 19, 2013 at 6:20:39 pm

Thanks for your reply.

I know that usually an edit house would have a tower and a rack going through a blackmagic or AJA via a capture card and will allow for upscaling. Any way to have a set up that will allow upscale and capture via Macbook Pro 17" ?

Thanks

JM


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Declan Smith
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 19, 2013 at 3:52:57 pm

As the footage source is DV, even if you capture from your device into Prores over firewire, you won't increase the quality one bit (I guess you know this already). The only thing you gain is less time taken to capture into your desired format.

I would suggest that you could capture to DV then transcode to Prores using Compressor and therefore incur no additional costs (other than the time overhead).

I too prefer to normalise all my footage into the same codec. It makes the entire process much easier.

Declan Smith
http://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

"it's either binary or it's not"


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John Moreno
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 19, 2013 at 6:36:45 pm

Thanks Delcan for your reply.

It's been years sine I have worked with Mini DV and I am now remembering how not fun it is.

I have been capturing at DV NTSC and of course I will need to transcode to ProRes but I am having an issue with frame rate.

The material was shot 24p on a Panasonic DVX. I am using DV NTSC w/ Advance 2:3:3:2 Pulldown capture setting and the material is coming in at 29.97. I have tried capturing at 23:98 but I get issues with audio sync, etc.

What would be the option to capture at it's native frame rate?

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 21, 2013 at 5:34:37 pm

[John Moreno] "Mini DV recorded via Panasonic DVX @ 24p"

Is this 24p or 24PA?

24PA has a different 3:2 pulldown cadence that makes it easy for computers to remove it at capture, leaving you with nice 23.976 (AKA 23.98) fps footage.

The possible downside is that you can't capture entire tapes and expect it to work. You have to use Log & Capture, capturing individual shots AND setting the capture in & out points within those shots. That's a good thing in disguise: you can weed out the bad shots and give meaningful names to the shots you capture.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Nick Meyers
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 22, 2013 at 6:46:52 am

what i would do about the DV to HD is to take the tapes to a post house,
and have them capture while passing the signal through a terenex hardware up-scaler.

i'd capture whole tapes as Prores HQ.

i'll admit i'm lucky in that i have close ties to a post house that would allow me to supervise this directly.

i'll also admit i know nothing about 23.976 to 29.97, pull-downs etc
maybe that can be dealt with during the capture, i don't know.


nick


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Tom Matthies
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 22, 2013 at 7:57:15 pm

I don't believe that that the earlier (or any) DVX-100 cameras actually recorded at a true 24 FPS rate. I think they actually recorded 24 over 30. Your 24fps footage is likely 29.97fps in reality.

E=MC2+/-2db


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 23, 2013 at 12:23:44 am

[Tom Matthies] " I think they actually recorded 24 over 30. Your 24fps footage is likely 29.97fps in reality."

Yup. In fact, that camera has TWO different 24p 3:2 pulldown cadences. Depending on which one is used, it's either easy to remove pulldown at log & capture time or a right royal pain to remove it later.

Either way, it should be removed.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rafael Amador
Re: Capturing / Digitizing Mini DV as ProRes 422
on Oct 23, 2013 at 10:08:15 am

[Tom Matthies] "I don't believe that that the earlier (or any) DVX-100 cameras actually recorded at a true 24 FPS rate. I think they actually recorded 24 over 30. Your 24fps footage is likely 29.97fps in reality."
Tape based formats are built to records standard NTSC (29,987ps). The drum spins 29,97 times per second.
If 23,98fps is implemented, pull-down must be added because the drum keeps spinning at the same 29,97 revolutions.
To get a tape camcorder recording real 23,98fps all the mechanic part (engines, drum, captan..) would be different. That would make more expensive the device. Using an standard camcorder and adding pull-down was the most economic solution.
rafael


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