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Hot mess with mixed frames 60i 60p and 23.98

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Bruno Toré
Hot mess with mixed frames 60i 60p and 23.98
on Sep 1, 2013 at 7:51:52 pm

Well I got myself in a hot mess. I received footage for a music video that was supposed to have all been shot at 23.98p and 60p.
Due to a camera department mistake I got the following:

23.98p
60p
and a ton of 60i

Since the main footage was 60i I let that be the settings for the timeline so the sequence settings are:
1920x1080 29.97 XDCAM HD422 1080i60 (50mb/s)

I editing the music video and dealt with the synch issues but now when I export a self contained quicktime there are all sorts of issues with pixelation and weird lines. All of them seem to be on the 60i clips altough it is coming from the appropriate sequence. I can't figure out why that is.

So first question, does anyone have any ideas on why thats happening.

Since I never worked mixing 60i and other formats on the same sequence before I am feeling tempted to think thats the issue and maybe I should conform everything to only one flavor.

Any thoughts, the music video is already locked and I would love to keep as much of the work I already did. Not sure how to go about any of this

All insight is greatly appreciated


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Hot mess with mixed frames 60i 60p and 23.98
on Sep 2, 2013 at 4:59:44 pm

Start at the end of the process and work backward: what's the frame rate that you need to deliver? Answer that, and you'll know what to do before you begin editing.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Bruno Toré
Re: Hot mess with mixed frames 60i 60p and 23.98
on Sep 3, 2013 at 10:05:59 am

Thank you so much for your quick reply Dave!

Originally the delivery was supposed to be 23.98, by now I have heard different things from client but lets stick to 23.98 as the 60i delivery would be only for an excerpt of the video that might be broadcast.

Im going to share my workaround with you, perhaps you will find it silly, but it has produced the best results so far, as I had the issue of turning 60i into convincing 23,98, plus I was trying to keep the same length on the clips because I already had a cut and wanted to try and keep that cut which had been approved by everyone. Either way this is what I figured out that worked for delivery on that format:

First off I should mention that I figured this out thanks to a combination of two posts mentioning Twixtor as viable possibility one of which was by you Dave.

"I recommend using a third-party plugin like Twixtor to convert the 1080 29.97 footage -- the same thing as 1080 60i, y'know -- into 23.976. Do individual shots, not an hour-long clip or something stupid like that."

This combined with an article on how twixtor does its "magic" gave me a hunch it was a viable option, but really it was just a Hail Mary on my part as I didnt fully grasp the concept at the time.

First I created a new timeline in FCP (23,98) I then match framed all the 23,98 clips on the 60i sequence and moved them to the new sequence.
For the remaining clips (60i), I exported just what was being used on the timeline as a self contained .mov and took each one of them to AE and inside AE I used a mixture of Composition settings changes, and Twixtor.

These two things allowed me to not only keep the same length on the clips (plus/minus one frame) it also produced convincing 23.98 looking footage, I did add the tiniest possible amount of motion blur in twixtor, I was worried about this but it worked out great.
So things look alikeish and everything including the singers synch performances remained synched.

The one thing that still baffles me is why was the 60i footage the one with pixelation and stuttering issues if it was being exported from a 60i sequence? I expected issues with the 23.98 footage coming out of that sequence but it was the opposite...


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Hot mess with mixed frames 60i 60p and 23.98
on Sep 3, 2013 at 3:17:58 pm

My crystal ball tells me you're looking at the problem clips on a computer monitor and not a video monitor. If the video is intended to play back at 60i and you should be okay; if not, you'll have problems. You're seeing the interlacing. Unless you want to CONVERT (not conform, mind you) the 60i clips to 23.976 and put them in a new cut of the project, you'll see that.

Since you yourself are unsure of the delivery frame rate, it kinda tough to offer advice you can take to the bank... other than to say that it's MUCH easier for FCP editors to deal with one frame rate and one frame rate only. As you are now painfully aware, sorry to say.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Bruno Toré
Re: Hot mess with mixed frames 60i 60p and 23.98
on Sep 3, 2013 at 4:15:55 pm

Your Cristal Ball tends to be good but this time its off. I could see the problems on both the Flanders video monitor and on my computer monitor, granted both showed different issues with the same export but still wierd that the video monitor would also have weird pixelation and crazy colored line issues...

Thanks for your help, for now I think Twixtor will be fine, in the future I will have to tackle these camera blunders when I first get the footage not after. My bad, I knew it was gonna bite me in the end just not sure what actually bit me yet, still doesent make sense to me that its the 60i footage thats giving me problems since I am exporting form the right sequence settings for the 60i footage.

Oh well...

Thanks for the advice!


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Hot mess with mixed frames 60i 60p and 23.98
on Sep 3, 2013 at 11:50:47 pm

Hmmmmm.... I only have two more suggestions, and then I'm out of answers.

Some of this footage may have been RECORDED at 60i, but SCANNED in the camera at 24p, and it has 3:2 pulldown that wasn't removed prior to editing. A lot of cameras will do 24p that way. Your task: remove the pulldown before editing.

Could this be a field order issue? 60i HD is supposed to be upper field first, but is some of it lower field first?

Okay, now I'm out of answers.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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