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1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file

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Naeem Moh
1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 21, 2013 at 4:20:10 am

Have some footage shot in Asia. Some of the footage was already imported directly into hard drive, and when I open it in Quicktime, Inspector says it is HDV 1080i50, 1,440 x 1,080 (1,888 x 1,062). FPS 25. Rest of footage is on tape and not captured.

1. The tapes I was trying to capture using a SONY DSR-11. According to this forum (http://www.lafcpug.org/phorum/read.php?1,156746), DSR-11 does not play HDV (regardless whether PAL or NTSC), so I need to get a new deck– not sure which one.


2. Meanwhile, for the files that are already digitized, I am trying to import those Quicktime movie files into FCP and that gives an error message saying unrecognized file. Capture Presets are set in Easy Setup to Format: HDV, and Use: HDV- 1080i50 Firewire Basic. Get an error message "Unable to initialize Capture Device."


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Rafael Amador
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 21, 2013 at 9:02:26 am

[Naeem Moh] " The tapes I was trying to capture using a SONY DSR-11."
That works only with MiniDV and DVCam tapes.




[Naeem Moh] "2. Meanwhile, for the files that are already digitized, I am trying to import those Quicktime movie files into FCP and that gives an error message saying unrecognized file. Capture Presets are set in Easy Setup to Format: HDV, and Use: HDV- 1080i50 Firewire Basic. Get an error message "Unable to initialize Capture Device." "
That's normal.
You can't capture NOTHING with that desk from an HDV tape.

You need an HDV camcorder or desk for capturing.
rafael


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Naeem Moh
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 21, 2013 at 11:37:12 am

Thanks Rafael.I am getting an HDV camera from a friend today.

Meanwhile, for the SECOND part of the question, which involves the files already created by the camera's hard drive, this is what my friend wrote:

"You may not be able to import that file into your current project because it is not an HDV file - it has an MPEG-2 wrapper that needs to be stripped off. Is it a file that was generated by a camera hard drive? If so you normally have to either use the Log and Transfer window in FCP to strip the camera compression off the file, or use MPEG Streamclip to do it if Log and Transfer doesn't see the file. You generally can't import a file in a camera-compression-wrapper directly into FCP b/c FCP does not recognize those proprietary file formats."

However, MPEG Streamclip is not being able to recognize the file. When you say "Open Anyway" you get a blank window.

This is the info MPEG Streamclip shows-->

Stream: 20070509-215639F01.mov
Type: MPEG transport stream

Duration: 0:01:19
Data Size: 1.42 GB
Readable: 342.38 MB
Bit Rate: 35.96 Mbps (?)

Video Tracks:
2064 MPEG-1

Audio Tracks:

Stream Files:
20070509-215639F01.mov (1.42 GB)



As for FCP Log and Transfer, I am unclear how to use that to ingest an existing digital file.


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Rafael Amador
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 21, 2013 at 1:15:42 pm

Your friend is right till a certain point.
Probably he comes from the PC world, when the HDV files get treated in a different way.
When you capture a tape on a PC, those files do not work directly in FC, but when you capture HDV on a MAC, you get plain HDV/QT files that work native in FC and any other QT based application.

Your issue with the captured files, I think, is different.
I think those files are not workable.
You have tried to capture HDV with a device that can only play DV, and beside being very different codecs, they use different FireWire protocols.
The fact that FC has being able to produce some files means no much if the files are not fully standard (package and contents).
What really wonders me is that FC has been able to make those files. At least he have tried, but is the first time I heard that.
Normally FC is very picky on capturing and as soon as he something that do not match (capture preset, capture protocol), do not want to work.
Rafael


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Naeem Moh
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 21, 2013 at 1:40:40 pm

Rafael,
No, she's on Mac.

There are two different issues, two sets of objects.

1. HDV PAL Tapes that I need to log, for which I will need to get access to an HDV camera. For now I am just going to a production house in midtown Manhattan which will digitize the three most essential tapes at $100/each.

2. HDV files that were already obtained from that same camera's hard drive, which cannot be imported into FC.

For #2 she believes the problem is those files were directly pulled off (drag and drop) from the camera's hard drive instead of using Log and Transfer. As a result they are in an unworkable format. MPEG Streamclip can't open them, neither can Apple Quicktime 7 Pro (you get the notorious "An invalid public movie atom" message). Apple Quicktime Player (not 7, the other version) can open them, but since that Player cannot convert the files, it's useless (except for viewing).


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Rafael Amador
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 21, 2013 at 2:58:01 pm

[Naeem Moh] "2. HDV files that were already obtained from that same camera's hard drive, which cannot be imported into FC.

For #2 she believes the problem is those files were directly pulled off (drag and drop) from the camera's hard drive instead of using Log and Transfer. As a result they are in an unworkable format. MPEG Streamclip can't open them, neither can Apple Quicktime 7 Pro (you get the notorious "An invalid public movie atom" message). Apple Quicktime Player (not 7, the other version) can open them, but since that Player cannot convert the files, it's useless (except for viewing)."

That's right.
When you record on the camcorder memory (no tape), the files are of the PC-frienly kind and they not open in QT. So if the files that you can not open comes from the camera HD, is normal that you can not play them. (I thought you were getting those files on capturing from the tape).

To manage those files you need "ClipWrap" (http://www.divergentmedia.com/clipwrap).
They have a free trial version.
Rafael


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Naeem Moh
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 22, 2013 at 12:22:07 am

Thanks Rafael. Have downloaded ClipWrap and will try to use it on the files that were pulled directly from Camera hard drive.

Meanwhile for the PAL HDV tapes, I had 4 of them (out of 30) digitized today at a production house in Manhattan.

The files they have given me are 1920x1080, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), Linear PCM, HD (1-1-1) {not sure what color profile this is}, 25 fps.

I set my FCP sequence to Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) 1920x1080 50i 48 khz and brought in the clip. Came in fine, did not ask for any rendering. However, the sound is out of sync (it is in sync when I play the clip in Quicktime).

The only thing I could find when looking at the QT file in FCP vs the Timeline is that although Audio Rate is 48.0 KHz for both file and sequence, Audio Format is 24-bit integer for the file and 32-bit floating integer for the sequence.

So I went into Sequence Preset Editor and changed Audio Settings>Depth (which was set to 16 Bit for some reason) to 24 Bit, deleted the previous sequence and opened a new one. Dropped the file in and the sound is still out of sync.

Also the Sequence still shows "32-bit floating integer" so that doesn't seem to have changed as a result of the 16 to 24 bit change.


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Naeem Moh
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 22, 2013 at 2:16:51 pm

Reply from my friend. And that was the problem, wireless speakers set to different kHz.

"Only thing I can think of is a problem with your speakers. Did you try with headphones instead? Are the speakers wireless? Are they set to 44.1 khz? Sound sync issue usually means one part of the system is set to 48 khz and the other to 44.1 khz. For whatever reason this is usually only a problem with FCP. Also all FCP sequences have 32-bit floating integer sound compression by default."


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Rafael Amador
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 23, 2013 at 10:42:02 am

Hi Naeem,
I've worked with HDV stuff only a couple of times, but I've seen a lot of post complaining about audio aut of sync with that format.
Sorry I can't help you much, but if you use the SEARCH in this forum is possible that you find some tips.
Rafael


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Naeem Moh
Re: 1080i50 25 fps (PAL) import problems, from tape and file
on Jun 24, 2013 at 9:45:08 pm

Thanks Rafael. It is resolved for now. Using headphones. Will return these Bluetooth speakers and get a wired set.


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