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mixing frame rates in FCP 7

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Aaron Rudelson
mixing frame rates in FCP 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 2:05:29 am

I once tried mixing frame rates in an FCP sequence and I found that the speed of the video changed noticeably to the point at which it appeared unnatural. However, I spoke to a DP on a project I'm about to start who wants to mix 29.97 with 23.976. He says he's never had that problem when mixing frame rates. What am I missing?


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Michael Gissing
Re: mixing frame rates in FCP 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 3:59:21 am

FCP really hates mixed frame rates. If the DP can come up with a valid reason to mix frame rates then you will need to use a NLE like AVID or Premiere. Even so it is not a good idea.

Tell the DP how to shoot and see how happy they are. When it comes to post, they shouldn't be calling the shots on important technical points without being totally aware of the consequences.


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Aaron Rudelson
Re: mixing frame rates in FCP 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 9:27:55 am

The purpose is to mimic the look of video for certain footage within a 24p project. The story is about shooting a TV show. So the idea is to intercut footage through the eyes of the broadcast camera. Is there another way of accomplishing that look?


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Shane Ross
Re: mixing frame rates in FCP 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 6:49:08 am

[Aaron Rudelson] " I spoke to a DP on a project I'm about to start who wants to mix 29.97 with 23.976."

Why? That makes no sense. Because you cannot work with a sequence that will play at both speeds. You can't have some footage that plays at smooth 29.97, and then cinematic 23.98. If you work at 23.98 and add 29.97, then the 29.97 inherits the 23.98 frame rate...only worse. Pulldown removal in FCP is wrong. That, and 29.97 that isn't shot with pulldown removal in mind...will look horrible. And there is no way to make 23.98 smooth.

No...BAD idea. If they want to mix 29.97 and 23.98...they need to shoot 24p over 30. Several cameras will shoot 29.97 with pulldown so it LOOKS like 23.98...but it still plays back at 29.97. If he wants to mix frame rate looks, that's what he should do.

Camera people are the last people who should decide what frame rate they shoot. Because often, they have no concept about what in involved in post. What determines the frame rate is the final deliverable and what look the producers/director want. And if they want to mix smooth video with cinematic 24p...they need to shoot 29.97 with pulldown. It's also called 24p....so it's confusing.

24pA would be the frame rate you'd shoot that shoots 23.98, but with advanced pulldown so that you can capture and end up with 23.98 footage. And there's 24pN...N meaning NATIVE...that shoots 23.98 directly in the camera. DOn't do that.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Aaron Rudelson
Re: mixing frame rates in FCP 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 10:03:34 am

[Shane Ross] "If they want to mix 29.97 and 23.98...they need to shoot 24p over 30. Several cameras will shoot 29.97 with pulldown so it LOOKS like 23.98...but it still plays back at 29.97."

Yes, he's looking to mix a TV look with a film look. But I'm not sure I follow you completely. What is "24p over 30"? Is that the same thing as shooting 29.97 with pulldown? In any of these cases, though are we not still going to see a motion change (a slowdown when splicing 29.97 into a 23.97 project)? Thanks, Shane.


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Shane Ross
Re: mixing frame rates in FCP 7
on Jun 21, 2013 at 5:00:57 pm

[Aaron Rudelson] "Yes, he's looking to mix a TV look with a film look."

Well, then you need to shoot video, and light it very video like. But no matter what, 29.97 won't be 29.97 if you have a 24fps timeline. Feature films are 24fps, and if there's video...it too is 24fps. Of course they probably do shoot video, but then convert the frame rate to match the film before they cut it in.

The trick to making it look like video is to use a video camera and ENG or video lens, and light like you would video. But get one that records 23.98. And then for the parts that you want to be cinematic, make sure you use a different camera, one designed to be cinematic, and use cinematic lenses.

[Aaron Rudelson] "What is "24p over 30"? Is that the same thing as shooting 29.97 with pulldown?"

Yes. That's shooting 23.98, but in a 29.97 stream...pulldown added.

[Aaron Rudelson] "In any of these cases, though are we not still going to see a motion change (a slowdown when splicing 29.97 into a 23.97 project)?"

No. If you put 29.97 into 23.98, you'll see improper pulldown removal. 3 frames, then the 4th frame is a repeat of frame 3. It'll looks stuttery.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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