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Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!

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Cal Thorley
Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 11, 2013 at 9:59:38 pm

Hi,
I shoot a bit of stuff on DSLR for an online site and although it's 1080p as opposed to the 1080i that's more the norm for broadcast in this part of the world, it's obviously been fine for online delivery.
But, I'm now looking to gather up a few hours of material and put it on a dvd.
And despite changing sequence, output settings to match it looks pretty awful on my broadcast monitor (via Matrox MX02LE) with any camera movement jittering real bad. I know this is one of the traps with progressive that I don't usually have to deal with.
But the interesting (and great!) thing is that burnt to a DVD and played through the telly, it looks fine.
So just wondering what's happening here?
Is it the DVD encoding? Consumer tv? Or possibly my output setup although I'm not sure what else I could do different there?

Thanks for any advice! While the problem isn't that much of a problem, it would be nice to get my head around what's going on.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 11, 2013 at 10:54:21 pm

There must be something in the settings as the Matrox to monitor should be able to show interlaced output properly even with material shot progressive.

What are the sequence settings, codecs and field order? Do they match the Matrox settings?


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Cal Thorley
Re: Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 11, 2013 at 11:17:53 pm

Thanks for your help Michael.

I've transcoded the footage to FCP friendly Pro Res LT, I'm currently using a 720p project which has the same symptoms.
Seq settings are HDTV 720p, no field dominance being progressive, and the match Pro Res Lt codec.
Matrox settings are Matrox MX02 - 720p 50 YUV 8 bit.

Is the 50 fps the problem here?? I don't have a 25 fps option on the Matrox. (New Zealand so PAL, or what was PAL)

Thanks again


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Shane Ross
Re: Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 11, 2013 at 11:45:18 pm

ProRes is 10-bit. Use a 10-bit Matrox setting.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Michael Gissing
Re: Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 12, 2013 at 8:12:12 am

If you shoot 1080p 25 then that should be your sequence settings. 720 50 on the Matrox is wrong for 25 fps footage.

When you go to DVD it is 576i 25fps. So you are doing two downscales. One to 720 and then down again to 576. Messy and it creates the problem that the monitoring via the Matrox at 50 not 25


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Cal Thorley
Re: Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 12, 2013 at 9:01:34 am

Sorry, I've confused everyone by bringing in the 720p option!

I was only using that as an example as I was working on that project and it was having the same issues.
I'll try and explain myself better...

The problem is the same if:

- I'm working in Pro Res LT 1080p in a Pro Res HDTV 1080 sequence (no field dominance) and outputting via the Matrox MX02LE on the Matrox 1080p 25 YUV 10bit setting.

- I'm working in Pro Res LT 720p in a Pro Res HDTV 720p seq (no field dominance) and outputting via Matrox in either the Matrox 720p 50 YUV 10bit OR the Matrox 720p 25 YUV 10 bit setting. (error operator on the 25 fps option, didn't see if right down the bottom of the list, not with the other 720p options! But same result)

So yes, well aware that I'm down scaling to DVD and that was the whole point of the question really.
It fixes the problem but why does it fix the problem? Does it actually create fields from the 'full' frames?
I would think I should be able to monitor progressive footage with the gear I have without this crazy jitter effect. Maybe the 5 less frames we get with PAL just 'does' this??

Thanks again for the help. As I mentioned it's a bit of a dead issue in that the DVD is ok but it's not exactly a pleasant exercise monitoring the edit on an external video monitor!
Cal


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Michael Gissing
Re: Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 12, 2013 at 10:08:55 am

With progressive material an interlaced timeline simply plays two identical fields so it is interlaced but looks progressive. DVD has to be interlaced as does all SD broadcast but for years telecine machines have produced two fields of the one frame. Same happens with progressive material. Two identical fields


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Cal Thorley
Re: Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 12, 2013 at 8:37:07 am

Cheers Shane, you're dead right. 10 bit - put that one down to brain fade!
Cheers,
Cal


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Rafael Amador
Re: Progressive footage in the land of interlacing. Basic questions!
on Jun 12, 2013 at 10:57:54 am

[Cal Thorley] "- I'm working in Pro Res LT 1080p in a Pro Res HDTV 1080 sequence (no field dominance) and outputting via the Matrox MX02LE on the Matrox 1080p 25 YUV 10bit setting."
If you are working with a broadcast monitor (HD/SD-SDI), I think, you need to set the Matrox to put out 1080i25.

Your footage is p25. You edit p25 and FC puts out to the Matrox p25. But the Matrox must feed the monitor with a i25 signal, because the standard for 1080 streaming is always INTERLACED.
The Matrox streams the Progressive image as PSF: Progressive Segmented Frame.
rafael


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