FORUMS: list search recent posts

Batch Capture opens Log & Capture instead of Log & Transfer

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Rich Moos
Batch Capture opens Log & Capture instead of Log & Transfer
on Apr 8, 2013 at 10:52:01 pm

Long time reader, first time poster. I manage a med/small facility. We have 9 FCP7 seats connected to an EditShare with 18 TB effective storage. In the recent past we had been working full rez on all projects form start to finish. Rapidly expanding demand and a move from EX1 acquisition to C300 acquisition has forced us to an offline/online workflow. A drag yes, but it’s the way we used to do it right?... before tapeless.

All master footage is brought in through Log & Transfer. We process the master footage in Media Manager to Offline RT with the Recompress method. Cut, then prep sequences in Media Manager with the create offline/delete unused media/with handles method. Open the new project that Media Manager made and launch Log & Transfer, load original media from archived cards and click batch capture. Instead of processing in Log & Transfer, FCP keeps opening Log & Capture as if it was looking for a tape. This happens regardless of the OS or hardware.

I have read the all of the very few posts about this error that are out there. I have also tested and retested multiple ways of Media Managing the material. I have yet to discover a solution. I’ve read unconfirmed suggestions that there is a problem with EX1 footage and Offline RT files, but this is happening with my C300 footage as well. I’m suspecting that I will run into this with every tapeless format. This seems to have affected Red users in the past who did not use L&T to handle their footage. The work around was to use Clipfinder. I thought that might be a work around for us as well, but that option is no longer available as the developer has stopped further development and support of that utility.

The process works fine when we use flavors of ProRes. However, we went with Offlline RT instead of ProRes Proxy because when we assessed overhead, we determined that we would exceed the capacity of our current architecture within a year or so given the current demands. Our work requires us to have access to a large volume of archive material as well as current material.

Based on the lack of posts about this and the age of the posts that do exist, it appears that very few people are offlining now days, or the problem was solved and folks just moved on. But I know that there are those out there in similar situations. Any advise or opinions are extremely welcome.

Cheers
--R.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Batch Capture opens Log & Capture instead of Log & Transfer
on Apr 8, 2013 at 11:42:35 pm

Sorry to say this, but you did it wrong.

It's because you used the Media Manager. If you use that method, you need to keep the high res originals to relink to later.

If you want to do the tapeless capture to offline codec, then recapture at full res... you need to Log and Transfer to that lower res directly, like ProRes Proxy.

Now you are in a pickle. Because you Media Managed with handles...and I assume you didn't keep the full res originals? Even if you did, getting the clips to relink to the masters, when they are of a different length, is a problem. Even if you try to reimport everything full res, then reconnect to those....you'll run into relinking issues. Unless you purchase software that will do that...

http://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=41

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Rich Moos
Re: Batch Capture opens Log & Capture instead of Log & Transfer
on Apr 9, 2013 at 1:29:08 am

Hi Shane,

Thanks for chiming in. I think I have read everything you've ever posted and every tutorial you've ever made that even came close to relating to this topic. Can you say FCPUG Mag 2010? I tried to be as clear and thorough as possible, but I did use a sort of short-hand. But maybe I missed something about the whole process as well.

I L&T-ed everything to ProRes Proxy, the complete camera originals, then recompressed those clips to OfflineRT with Media Manager, (identical clips/names/lengths at OfflineRT compressions which relink fine), and did the cut with the OfflineRT media. Once pix locked, I consolidated the sequence with Media Manager using "Make Offline" to get me a sequence made of just the clips I want to up-rez. This works perfect with clips that are tape based or tapeless clips that were a flavor of ProRes, i.e. offlining ProRes proxy then onlining to ProRes 422-- Log and Transfer launches when I want to bring in tapeless media. But the process breaks if I'm using OfflineRT (made from ProRes Proxy that were brought in through L&T) from tapeless media and when I try to batch capture my tapeless media, Log & Capture launches instead.

What I interpret you saying is that I have to keep the full-rez material that I L&T from the start, plus the camera original (for archiving), plus the OfflineRT versions, never really going back to the camera original material-- 3 different flavors of the all of the footage? I would do my cut from the OfflineRT, then reload the entire full-rez version that I've archived and relink back to that version, bypassing batch capture with L&T altogether? An interesting work around and if the offline/online process really is broken when it comes to tapeless media, I can incorporate this needless/senseless process into my workflow, but is that really the case? Can it be true? I'm having a hard time believing it, especially since it works fine with flavors of ProRes. Is there no real way to offline tapeless in FCP aside from ProRes Proxy? Maybe I should be looking at expanding my EditShare real estate. Even if I double it though, that only buys me a year or so. I need a real offline solution. What does NFL Films do!

I bailed on Avid 4+ years ago, just before Apple bailed on FCP pro users. I've been holding out, but I'm hating that I might have to admit I regret the decision.

Premiere anyone?
--R.


Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: Batch Capture opens Log & Capture instead of Log & Transfer
on Apr 9, 2013 at 11:49:13 pm

Well, you went astray when you double offline compressed the footage. The whole process broke when you media managed the ProRes Proxy to Offline RT. That right there broke the metadata relationship between the offline RT footage and the camera masters. They no longer think they are tapeless media.

You have to do one of two things...

1) Log and Transfer to ProRes Proxy, and yes, this means that ProRes Proxy is the lowest res you can go. Then use the Media Manager to CREATE OFFLINE for prepping the clips and sequence to be reimported at higher resolution.

OR...

2) Log and Transfer full res, and media manage to Offline RT or another format and keep the full res versions somewhere to relink to.

You cannot do both. Sorry, it simply doesn't work. And none of my tutorials or articles say to do both. Because I tried it (testing out workflows) and it failed. So, we did option 2 and kept the full res files on Bare SATA drives that we put into a DOCK when we onlined.

[Rich Moos] " Is there no real way to offline tapeless in FCP aside from ProRes Proxy?"

Nope...that's as low res as it goes...unless you do option 2. WHich is a royal pain, because you have to keep the full res masters on drives. No, FCP isn't nearly as efficient with offline/online workflows as Avid is. They never made it so you could L&T to offline RT HD, like they SHOULD have. FCX still doesn't...lowest it goes is Proxy.

[Rich Moos] "What does NFL Films do!"

No doubt they utilize Final Cut Server for some of this, and clips there are captured full res, or Proxy...and then server makes even smaller MP4 files for their producers to see on that server. But NFL Films has MONEY! So they have TONS of storage.

Sorry man. Not sure what to suggest now. Import as ProRes Proxy and manually replace that other footage possibly.

[Rich Moos] "An interesting work around and if the offline/online process really is broken when it comes to tapeless media, I can incorporate this needless/senseless process into my workflow, but is that really the case? Can it be true? I'm having a hard time believing it, especially since it works fine with flavors of ProRes"

FCP has always been a bear with offline/online workflows. Their solutions are pretty much non-solutions. It's like they are unaware of how much footage people might possibly have on some projects. It can get to be quite a lot! A friend of mine has been editing a feature doc for 3 years. They have a lot of footage. He also have Fifty 2-TB drives containing all the footage (at full res). And this footage is backed up twice....meaning there are 3 sets of these fifty 2-TB drives. 150 drives!! PLUS the drives containing the camera originals. It's nuts.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Rich Moos
Re: Batch Capture opens Log & Capture instead of Log & Transfer
on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:41:07 pm

Thanks again Shane. The input is appreciated, valuable, and finally puts the issue to bed. I hope this thread is helpful to the next schlub like me that comes along with the "of course it's possible" assumption to do a real offline/online workflow with tapeless media in FCP7.

Since we are on an EditShare there might yet be a solution to our troubles with their Flow product. I'm looking into it and will report back. I'm also taking a hard look at Lightworks. Will that be the FCP killing game-changer...? Will NAB reveal FCP X to be a dark horse, restoring our faith, and save the Apple day...? Stay tuned.

Cheers
--R.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Batch Capture opens Log & Capture instead of Log & Transfer
on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:07:17 am

[Rich Moos] "I'm also taking a hard look at Lightworks. Will that be the FCP killing game-changer...?"

No...Adobe CS7 will be.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2018 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]