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Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...

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Kristine Bates
Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...
on Mar 20, 2013 at 9:16:42 pm

Hello,

I recently started a new job and was asked to shoot & edit a musical. We had four cameras- 3 XHA-1's and a tiny canon camera to record audio from the board. The XHA-1 records HDV. I am working with a MacBook Pro 2.6 Ghz Intel Core i7 with 8gb RAM 1600 MHz DDR3. I imported my footage to my 1TB Lacie Rugged. (I believe 7200?). I have the option of going firewire 800 or USB 3. I imported to footage to ProRess 422 (not HQ) its 1440x1080 (huge I know). The clips played fine on their own, and look great, however I am having problems multi-cam-ing them together. I can make the multicam but when i try to edit it- it plays for about 5 seconds then gives me the message about dropped frames. I understand 4 streams are a lot to push through my little lacie, so I moved half of the cameras to a WD My Passport 1TB drive with USB 3 and nothing has changed. I have lowered the play back rate and quality.. turning off Unlimited RT does nothing cause then I am forced to render, which then I can't edit the multiclip. Is there a way to edit all 4 clips in a multi-clip format? Do you think re-exporting the footage in 720x480 would work in the multicam or would i just be wasting time? Or do i need to get a new hard drive? Should I convert them to H.264s instead of ProRess?

Any help is greatly appreciated,
Kristine


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Shane Ross
Re: Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...
on Mar 20, 2013 at 9:42:33 pm

1) 1440x1080 isn't huge. It is, in fact, anamorphic 1080 HD...so the data rate is less than full raster 1920x1080.

2) 4 streams of 1080i HD via Firewire 800...even USB3...is too much. You need at least a 2 drive RAID-0 eSATA connection, or Thunderbolt connection, in order to do this.

3) NEVER EVER EVER CONVERT FOOTAGE TO H.264 FOR EDITING. FCP doesn't like H.264.

4)You can Media Manage the footage to ProRes Proxie and multiclip that. Then relink to the ProRes 422 masters when done. If that is too much, then media manage to DV Anamorphic for the offline, then relink to the HD masters when done.

If you convert to H.264 and try to edit that...I will slap you.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Kristine Bates
Re: Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...
on Mar 21, 2013 at 1:36:01 pm

Shane,

Thank you very much for your feedback. I am hoping something will solve my problem so I don't have to manually edit something that could be edited in "real-time". Any suggestions on a thunderbolt drive?

I have never worked with Proxy's before. If I convert all of them into a proress proxie I will be able to multi-cam the four clips?

I won't convert to h.264, I promise, but what about exporting it to 720x480 proress and using those for the multi-clip?

Thank you for your help
Kristine


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Shane Ross
Re: Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:30:39 pm

[Kristine Bates] "Any suggestions on a thunderbolt drive?"

I don't have one, so I cannot personally vouch for any make or model.


[Kristine Bates] "I have never worked with Proxy's before. If I convert all of them into a proress proxie I will be able to multi-cam the four clips?"

Do a test with smaller clips. Use the Media Manager to recompress them. Then multiclip them and see how it goes.

[Kristine Bates] "I won't convert to h.264, I promise, but what about exporting it to 720x480 proress and using those for the multi-clip?"

I wouldn't go ProRes NTSC...you might run into same problem. I'd go DV or Offline RT. But try Proxy first.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Kristine Bates
Re: Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...
on Mar 21, 2013 at 7:23:08 pm

Hi Thank you so much for your help...

My next question is- how do I create a ProRess Proxy?

What I have done so far- Since the HDV import created a new clip every time the tape hiccuped, I synced the three cameras to the main audio for both Act 1 & Act 2. Now, if i understand correctly, can I just set and In and Out on the time line --> Export QT Conversion--> Proress Proxy--> set the destination. Then multi-clip the 4 proxy files for the edit. Will the original footage then relink? Or do I NOW have to export the combined clips as normal QT movie, then convert those to a proxy to relink later? I think that's the way to go.... am I right?

Thank you,
Kristine


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Shane Ross
Re: Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...
on Mar 21, 2013 at 7:40:42 pm

[Kristine Bates] "y next question is- how do I create a ProRess Proxy?"

I have stated how twice...and now I will a third time, in more detail. MEDIA MANAGE the footage to ProRes Proxy. Select the footage in the bin, open up the Media Manager, use the RECOMPRESS option...choose ProRes Proxy

[Kristine Bates] "Now, if i understand correctly, can I just set and In and Out on the time line --> Export QT Conversion--> Proress Proxy--> set the destination."

NO!!! IN doing this you lose all needed information to relink to the masters. Timecode and reel number will be lost. No no no no no. Nowhere did I say to do that.

Media manage>RECOMPRESS the footage to ProRes Proxy. All metadata is maintained. Take full res version offline...remove the drive. SO that means you need to media manage to another drive. Edit with ProREs Proxy. When done, disconnect drive with Proxy footage, reconnect drive with full res footage...reconnect.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Spencer Averick
Re: Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...
on Mar 21, 2013 at 7:43:08 pm

Bummer about the clips breaking up. Shane might have a better solution, but here's what I would do.

-If you have all of the clips for CAM A in a timeline (as ProRes 422) synced to the audio, export that as a QUICKTIME MOVIE. This is full res 422. Now you have that as your main hi-res clip that you can put in a new "422" folder.

-Do the same for CAM B, CAM C, etc.

-In the finder, open all of your full res clips OPEN WITH>COMPRESSOR.

-Now in Compressor in the SETTINGS window, search "PROXY". Now you will see the Proxy setting . Drag that setting to your clips that have opened in compressor. Now hit Submit, then OKAY and you're files will start compressing to Proxy.

Now you have identical 422 and Proxy clips that you can easily swap out (reconnect to) in your sequence.


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Nick Meyers
Re: Multi-Cam edit that i thought would be easy...
on Mar 23, 2013 at 10:50:15 am

a point of note about the MEDIA MANAGER

using MM, you don't have lose any work you have already done.
simply select ALL Lin your browser before you media manger,
and you will get all your work back in a new project, with all sequences set to your new format.


re the clips being broken up

it might be worth having a look at FCPX
it can deal with that situation, FCP legacy cant (not easily)

i suspect FCPX might have ways of easily creating and working with low-res proxies, but i could be wrong.

as spencer points out, your original idea is not completely unworkable.
you 1st export your Prores timelines as new MASTERS.
THEN convert to to ProresProxy
i would use Media Manager for this, not compressor
do your edit, and when done use Media Manger to create an offline version set to your Prores master settings
and reconnect

BUT what Shane says is absolutely correct, there is a certain risk involved,
so you should keep your original HDV sequences archived.
lock all the tracks, and put them away safely in a bin.

Shane's point is that you wont be able to trace your finished edit back to your camera originals if needed.
however, there maybe a risk of that already as i believe you loose the original TC when you capture HDV as ProRes.
again, i could be wrong


THUNDERBOLT DRIVE
it *might* help, but it probably wont.
the drive itself will be the bottleneck, not the connection
a thunderbolt RAID would do the trick.



nick


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