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Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?

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mike taylor
Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 19, 2013 at 1:41:03 pm

I have a (relatively new) project done in ProRes and I would like to have it in ProRes LT, which I had transcoded with the same names.

I lost a drive with all the LT versions and had to start editing with client so went with originals, but no time to export Proxy -- I will have to use the project files, so I decided to go with LT since it's smaller and easier on the processor.

The original ingest to ProRes was made and I had planed to edit in Proxy and then replace the files with ProRes for export. I did some tests and I had some issues with simultaneous playback in ProRes (Installation Project) but not in ProRes LT. The timeline for the project was pushed forward and i bailed on Proxy and decided to do it all in LT, then lost the drive while backing it up--essentially all the transcoded files; 29 hours.

I successfully rebuilt the project in ProRes to begin editing (client's availability made this necessary) and have almost completed the new transcodes to LT.

Can i just attach the LT same-named files to the project, which are in the same relation but on a different drive, like I would with Proxies?

thanks
mike


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Alex Elkins
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 19, 2013 at 3:12:33 pm

[mike taylor] "Can i just attach the LT same-named files to the project, which are in the same relation but on a different drive, like I would with Proxies?
"


Yes, assuming that the files also contain the same reel names as the ProRes originals. If not then FCP may have issues reconnecting to some of the files automatically. However, in any case you can force it to by manually pointing it to the file you want it to connect to.

Did you do the transcoding through FCP's own Media Manager? If so, then you'll have no problems reconnecting to the ProRes LT files.

Alex Elkins
@postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View my new colour correction reel


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Samuel Frazier
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 3:54:16 am

If I understand the original question correctly, then yes I completely agree with Alex that this should work fine. I do this this all the time and so long as you use the Media Manager to make the lower res files, then direct FCP to use the lower res files, it's not an issue. If you've never done this re-pointing of files, it's not hard and easy to walk you through.



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mike taylor
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 7:55:29 am

>>I do this this all the time and so long as you use the Media Manager to make the lower res files, then direct FCP to use the lower res files, it's not an issue. If you've never done this re-pointing of files, it's not hard and easy to walk you through.<<

I didn't use the media manager, I did batch transcodes using standard ProRes LT codec in Compressor. i had to use the main computer to edit but could do the transcodes with same files as in project but from BU drive.

I can definitely repoint by hand--I had to do this when a helpful person renamed a bunch of files at one point on a past project. It's all the same names inside the same-named folder, just on a different drive --and they are LT versions.

Will the Compressor transcodes re-attach correctly? Or will FCP tell me the files don't match and then freak out when i say to attach anyway?

I will use a copy of the current working file of the proj to re-attach, not the current working file, just don't want all the render files etc to get screwy--lots of motion quads involved.

Will this work with the batch transcodes that weren't media-managed?

mike


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Alex Elkins
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 3:07:30 pm

[mike taylor] "I did batch transcodes using standard ProRes LT codec in Compressor"
You may find that Compressor hasn't maintained the correct reel name and/or timecode, which could make re-connecting automatically a bit difficult. Assuming you've already run the conversions I'd suggest importing it into FCP and comparing its timecode and reel name to the original. I have a feeling you might need to re-transcode everything through Media Manager overnight.

[mike taylor] "I will use a copy of the current working file of the proj to re-attach, not the current working file, just don't want all the render files etc to get screwy--lots of motion quads involved."

Your render files will be lost regardless. You're changing the codec of the files and therefore the sequence, so the effects will need to be re-rendered to the new codec.

Alex Elkins
@postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View my new colour correction reel


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mike taylor
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 4:03:16 pm

Thanks, ALex and Samuel.

I'm working longform and in quad templates so the exports are taking forever, 3-4 hours per 30-minute chunk even writing from a RAID to an SSD.

I really wish I had been able to start with Proxy or LT--the transcodes on the 29 52-minute clips were a lot longer than overnight so when I lost the drives I lost around 36 hours of transcode time--so it looks like I have to continue to work in ProRes straight and just transcode the finals to LT for playback.

At this point even though exporting takes so long I don't thnk I'll save time by trading out footage. The end result will be four 60 to 70-minute films that playback in sync and I don't see an upside to messing around.

As it stands now, even after export I still have green render lines on all the projects. To save any time at all I'll need to cut into the exported version to make changes, whenever that's possible, so that's another layer of timecode change. As it is I have to rethink the color correction no matter how mild, and a slew of other things... sorry, thinking aloud.

Thanks for your help!

cheers,
Mike


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Samuel Frazier
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 7:38:53 pm

Sounds like you've made up your mind then. I know, these things are maddening and such a waste of time when all you want to do is edit peaceably.

I think I may have tried the other method and tried to offline and online w/o the use of media manager. I honestly do not remember or what the results were, but I would not recommend.

Best of luck!



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mike taylor
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 9:20:11 am

Hi Samuel

You mentioned above that media-managed file replacement worked pretty well. The FCP manual is not that helpful; I looked around the cow and didn't see anything but maybe there is something pragmatic and specific here or online--can you point me toward an article? I plan to do this right the next time. And stop using GRAIDS.

thanks for all your help
Mike


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Samuel Frazier
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 3:20:49 pm

It's been a while for me, but I believe I watched this as a refresher:

http://library.creativecow.net/ross_shane/tapeless_online/1

Thanks to Shane Ross for making the tutorial!!



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Alex Elkins
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 4:06:01 pm

Do bear in mind that Shane's tutorial is based on transcoding using Log & Transfer. If you've transcoded using third-party software (as the O.P. did) then that won't apply (although it's a great tutorial video describing a process we should all be confident with).

To be honest, there isn't a very good offline/online tapeless workflow for FCP other than Log & Transfer (unless you're using the high-end digital cinema cameras). The best option is perhaps DaVinci Resolve Lite (free), which can act as a useful transcode and conform tool as well as for grading.

The reason FCP's Media Manager was originally mentioned was because you stated you had ProRes 422 masters from which you wanted to derive ProRes LT files for offline editing. Media Manager is great for going from high-quality down to lower-quality, but isn't useful for normal offline/online tapeless workflows where you're beginning your edit with low-quality media.

Alex Elkins
@postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View my new colour grading reel


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Samuel Frazier
Re: Can you replace ProRes in a project with ProRes LT by linking to the same media names, as in Proxy replacement?
on Apr 2, 2013 at 5:57:29 pm

Oops, sorry for the link then. I think Alex gave some great advice though I mus confess I've never used the Log & Transfer as he mentioned. All I've done is take my footage and use the Media Manager to recompress it to a lower format, like ProRes LT. This has worked fine for me on several projects.



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