FORUMS: list search recent posts

Frame rate resolve

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Enrico Lappano
Frame rate resolve
on Mar 3, 2013 at 3:31:54 pm

I have been working on a multimedia documentary a while now, shooting 29.97fps on a 7D primarily. It is about 2/3's complete, but now I'm being haunted by frame rate resolve. Should the project have been shot at 23.98? The doc will be screened and performed at indie cinema houses with live music.

It will be feature length. The 29.97 looks good on my Sony Bravia (can't afford to monitor professionally at this time), but I have no idea how it will in fact translate on screen. Of course I love the look of film (23.98), but I was trying to get a live kind of feel to the images. I'm afraid though wether 29.97 will look flat. There are also still some scenes to shoot and I am always tempted to break down and shoot 23.98, but wouldn't be able to edit it into the timeline.

Anybody have vision on this question? Certainly would appreciate your feedback.


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: Frame rate resolve
on Mar 3, 2013 at 10:39:57 pm

Mixing frame rates in a project is a bad idea. Stick with the 29.97 rate as it is mostly shot.


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: Frame rate resolve
on Mar 4, 2013 at 4:45:55 am

I'm with Michael.
Don't complicate your life at this stage.
Beside the technical issues of editing with two different time bases, you may end up with an uneven product where people may notice the difference between shots made with on one or the other time base.
rafael


Return to posts index


Enrico Lappano
Re: Frame rate resolve
on Mar 4, 2013 at 2:23:53 pm

I appreciate your feedback.

My main goal was to create a live feel to the image that would compliment the music, concerned now whether 29.97 fps will look a little too flat. Since I'm working kind of in the dark at this stage, are there effective options during or after post that'll work within a very independent budget?


Return to posts index

Joseph Owens
Re: Frame rate resolve
on Mar 4, 2013 at 6:30:30 pm

[Enrico Lappano] "concerned now whether 29.97 fps will look a little too flat. "

Not sure I'm following/understanding the use of the word "flat", but I'm a colorist by core offering.

If you are referring to contrast ratio, that has *almost* nothing to do with frame rate -- *almost*, because MTF is affected by lens aperture and exposure time, naturally a consequence of frame rate. But if your use of the word "flat" refers to a relative smoothness of motion, because of the higher frame rate, then frankly, I have to wonder what Peter jackson is hoping to accomplish with 48 fps, in the company of other notables who are pushing for 60 fps.

Forests have been felled in the discussion of what constitutes a "film look". Many would argue that frame rate is not specifically the main constituent. Offhand, there are probably 20 or so other optical phenomena that are more important, even discounting all the cheap tricks that plugin developers sell that have more to do with "bad" film, than actual emulsion-dye-layer media.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


Return to posts index

Enrico Lappano
Re: Frame rate resolve
on Mar 4, 2013 at 7:35:40 pm

I think I am referring to contrast ratio. Not really concerned with smoothness of motion. When you say "almost", 29.97/23.98 seem to present a certain look. I'm looking for something in between, that still maintains the depth and beauty of film, but will work in with the live music element.
Not sure if that makes sense.


Return to posts index


Michael Gissing
Re: Frame rate resolve
on Mar 4, 2013 at 10:58:21 pm

The 7D shoots progressive images on a largish sensor. They are a large component of a filmic look.

Grading 23.976, 25 or 29,97 is much more a factor of lens, lighting and camera sensor not frame rate. Do some test grading of your footage and if you want shoot a couple of shots at different frame rates to see what the difference, if any, really is.


Return to posts index

Joseph Owens
Re: Frame rate resolve
on Mar 5, 2013 at 4:13:42 pm

[Enrico Lappano] " I'm looking for something in between"
Then you are likely looking for some sort of gentle modifier that simulates the non-linear sensinometry of opto-chemical emulsion. The usual go-to gamma characteristic is to place a control point somewhere in the middle of the luminance 0-100 transfer curve, put a concave-up curve on the lower part and a concave-down shape on the upper part of the graph -- the ubiquitous "S-curve". This simulates a kind of "log" behavior that starts travelling toward a "filmic" rendition, mimicing a graceful fall-off of exposure performance, instead of the over-the-cliff crush-and-clip of solid-state imaging, but, you know, there are only so many numbers between 64 and 940. As compared to the billions of crystal-clouds on each layer of every unique film frame.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


Return to posts index

Enrico Lappano
Re: Frame rate resolve
on Mar 8, 2013 at 6:25:37 pm

Thank you all very much for your feedback, returning to the 29.97/23.98 question. It was illuminating and not what I expected.

I guess what you're saying comes back to the analog/digital issue and trying to recreate the 24p film ideal digitally. It's amazing that digital media can in some way approximate analog origins.

I'm not a colorist yet, but would love to learn more about how to, "place a control point somewhere in the middle of the luminance 0-100 transfer curve, put a concave-up curve on the lower part and a concave-down shape on the upper part of the graph -- the ubiquitous "S-curve". This simulates a kind of "log" behavior that starts travelling toward a "filmic" rendition, mimicing a graceful fall-off of exposure performance, instead of the over-the-cliff crush-and-clip of solid-state imaging."


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]