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DSLR & external audio SYNC issue

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Matt Campbell
DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 25, 2013 at 8:42:26 pm

I have a 2 camera shoot which I'm in the process of loading and sync'ing up. Both CAMs, A & B are 1080p23.98 ProRes 422 material ingested via Canon FCP plug-in. External audio is 4-channel mono WAV files with 1 & 3 being LAV and 2 & 4 boom (with levels offset on each channel to avoid peaking).

Since this is shot with 7D and no TC, I'm trying to sync all 3 via In-Points and use Make Multiclip. I've done this many times before and have never had an issue, until now and this project. Both cameras sync up, but the external audio seems like it jumps ahead in time about 15 seconds or so. Doesn't make sense. Because when I pull each element onto a timeline and sync manually via the same In-Point, its perfect. But then I loose the Multiclip functionality, which I like.

Any ideas for sync'ing external audio to both cameras?

OS 10.6.7, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 4 gb ram and AJA IoHD


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Ryan Holmes
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 25, 2013 at 9:17:01 pm

PluralEyes 3 will solve your syncing problems (provided you sent scratch audio to the cameras as well). So much easier and faster than trying to do it manually.

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/pluraleyes/

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes


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Matt Campbell
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 25, 2013 at 9:48:26 pm

Yeah, we don't have 300 bucks to spend. And I never liked Plural Eyes. Had more issues with it working right than actually working. My problem lies with the Multi-clip, which I like to retain. Its easier to edit with than having everything laid out in one timeline. The manual sync works fine, in 1 timeline, but Multi-clip isn't.

OS 10.6.7, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 4 gb ram and AJA IoHD


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Jeff Meyer
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 25, 2013 at 10:13:35 pm

Kind of comes with the territory when you shoot with asynchronous sources. It may work sometimes, but it isn't going to work all the time. Aside from doing a time stretch on the audio to create a uniform out point (which creates its own pitch issues) I'm not sure of anything you can do.

Being more consumer-prosumer oriented, FCX might handle asynchronous multicam with more proficiency. The multicam syncing based on audio is supposed to be pretty impressive. There's a 30 day trial, so maybe you can give it a go and see if it can sync things up, and if its limitations are livable within your environment.


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Matt Campbell
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 25, 2013 at 10:31:04 pm

Understood. We're actually moving to CS6 soon and not X. But in the meantime FCP is still used heavily. I have sync on all 3 sources in my timeline when I layer them manually, but not using Multicam sync via In-Point. Never seen this before. Might just have to edit that way, even though its more work. thx anyway.

OS 10.6.7, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 4 gb ram and AJA IoHD


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Dave LaRonde
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 26, 2013 at 9:46:59 pm

Is there a sample rate issue? 44.1 vs. 48 kHz, perhaps? FCP likes 48 kHz. I for one would convert the audio to reflect that, if it's an issue. If it had not already been done, I would also convert the DSLR footage to ProRes 422 at log & transfer... which may also fix the audio. I'm uncertain if it would, but it probably does.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Matt Campbell
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 26, 2013 at 11:47:26 pm

Hey Dave, I don't think so. I know dslr shoots 44.1 audio but with the canon plugin for FCP, it converts to ProRes and 48khz. The external audio is 48 as well. I'll take a deeper look tmrw when in office as I'm not 100% on audio from the PR files. But again, syncs manually in timeline no problem, which is all from same In-Points that I used for multiclip, which is off.

I'll do a test tmrw with one clip and use Streamclip to convert to PR and 48, which I don't like to do cause it strips metadata, but will see if it works. Or even Compressor.

OS 10.6.7, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 4 gb ram and AJA IoHD


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Michael Gissing
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 27, 2013 at 12:08:09 am

DSLRs with original firmware shot 30fps with 44.1khz audio. After firmware updates years ago they shot rates like 29.97, 25 and 23.976 with 48khz audio. If you have 44.1khz audio then the camera must have very old firmware and is not correct frame rates.


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Matt Campbell
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 27, 2013 at 3:45:33 pm

Dave and Michael, I've double checked my footage and Michael you are correct. Video is 23.976 and audio is 48 khz, not 44.1. My external audio is also 48 kHz, but 24-bit, where as the transcoded footage is 48khz 16-bit. Does the bit depth affect sync? It shouldn't right? Screen shots of Item Properties below.

Video has 2 mono channels each. A-cam & B-cam. External audio has 4 mono channels. Lav 1&3 Boom 2&4.

Images attached.

Audio:


Video:


OS 10.6.7, Mac Pro 2 x 3 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 4 gb ram and AJA IoHD


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Michael Gissing
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Feb 27, 2013 at 9:32:10 pm

Bit depth doesn't affect sync.


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Stephen Hill
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Jun 24, 2013 at 10:11:57 pm

Do you have any clips with matching clip names? We shoot often with 4 or 5 DSLRs and they can (when we are unlucky) by chance sometimes be notching up identical file names. If this occurs I change one batch of files from a single camera using adobe bridge. Also, whenever I sync using plural eyes I delete everything in my temp plural eyes folder. As the app creates proprietary audio files to work from these too can often end up matching file/clip names from previous or new jobs. I noticed that plural eyes would see a matching source file to a temp file and presume they were from the same job, thus ruining the sync. Long story short, delete all the temp files and see if that makes a difference. Every time I have had issues it has worked for me.


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Matt Campbell
Re: DSLR & external audio SYNC issue
on Jun 25, 2013 at 7:09:01 pm

No matching file names. No pluraleyes. Don't like it and have never had much luck using it.

The external audio syncs just fine when using merge clip to A-cam. But when I try to sync both A & B cam with external audio, no dice. The video is in sync, but external audio gets thrown off.

I was able to get using A-cam and external, merged clips. Then go back and find the B-cam sync point from clapper and edit the necessary shots into the timeline. More work, but had no issues. I don't understand my multi clip wouldn't work correctly. I've used this method lots before, with 2 even 3 camera angles and external audio. But this time, nothing.

Anyway, I've completed the job, but now just want to figure out why I couldn't sync properly.

OSX 10.7.5 with a 3.39 Ghz Intel Core i7 on a built up Hackintosh
16 GB of RAM with OSX on SSD, (2) internal HDDs RAID'd 1 for project files and External RAID 5 for all project assets (media, GFX, stills, etc.)


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