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Stu Gilbert
Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 11, 2013 at 3:01:01 am

I've run into a very unexpected problem, just when the finish line was in sight.

I just burned a DVD of a project I've been working to make sure everything looked ok when viewed on people's home tvs. Its a doc, so I was worried about the Ken Burns-ified still images.
They looked fine.

The interviews, however, had MAJOR issues. Instead of the fine combs I'd been seeing on the computer monitor, any motion resulted in HUGE... I dont want to even call them combs, they're more like digital comet trails.

I shot in 24p, which I'm sure is part of the problem. However, even the some of the archival, motion picture stuff that is in there, which I didnt shoot or transfer, was doing it too.

How can I remedy this? My screening will be digital, but I want to burn copies for the participants to keep.
(Technology scares/frustrates me, I miss celluloid)


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 11, 2013 at 3:33:56 am

Unfortunately, you have now discovered precisely why professional editors absolutely, positively must have I/O cards or devices from AIA, Blackmagic, or Matrox, which display to video monitors and/or TVs.

Computer monitors are incapable of accurately displaying fields, and you're only now discovering these issues, because DVDs when played on a set top box on TVs do display via a true video signal that does properly reveal fields, or in this case fields issues.

You might try deinterlacing, but that will most likely cut your vertical resolution in half. Other than that, there is no easy fix.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Stu Gilbert
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 11, 2013 at 4:09:52 am

Yikes! Not really the answer I was looking for haha

You said no easy fix...... is there a hard fix? Would changing the sequence settings help or hurt? Short of re-importing all the interviews, I'm not afraid of time intensive, tedious, eye burning, bs.. if it will help.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 11, 2013 at 4:29:26 am

Sorry Stu, but there's really no easy answer. And, to really be able to help in these matters requires very precise information.

It would certainly help if you told us precisely what your seq. settings are, and did you really shoot at 24p, or was it really 23.98?

Plus, as I mentioned, you are really going to have a hard time without being able to display to a real video monitor. Do you have any friends in a video facility who can help you?

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 11, 2013 at 3:09:46 pm

Progressive footage can be treated as interlaced and edited on an interlaced sequence without problem.
So is your footage is really Progressive, is impossible that shows interlacing, whatever the field order of the editing sequence.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Mark Suszko
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 11, 2013 at 4:45:45 pm

Yes, it sounds like your field order may be reversed in some of the footage, if it is interlaced. I've not had this happen to me yet, but I think it gets everyone sooner or layer, sooner if you insist on 24P.

I think what I would do is extract a small section of the worst example, plunk it into a new timeline, and try some things like reversing the field order or applying telecine filters, shift fields, or whatnot, see if there *is* a quick fix, which is unlikely at this stage.

The ugly answer I think will turn out to be: re-digitize all the problem footage with correct settings, then try and use Media Manager and the time codes of the source clips to replace each clip with the new versions.

Maybe duplicate the whole project and footage files, then try to globally change the interlace parameters and such.

Or maybe just fake your own kidnapping at this point and disappear for a few weeks until things blow over.

But try working with a small sample first, a ten second hunk, edit it, export it, author it to DVD, play it out. Change only one parameter at a time, be scientific about this.


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Stu Gilbert
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 12, 2013 at 1:54:47 am

David, the sequence is 29.97. I dont know how to check if its TRUE 24p, I would sort of guess not. I shot on a DVX100, if that narrows it down....

Unfortunately, I dont have any way to monitor right now. The only accessible one is a rental, and booked. I knew not having one would be a problem, but I was thinking it was going to be because of the still images, never would I think I'd be having problems w/ the interviews.

When I began this, it was for a class, and the professor advised going 24p if we were worried about running into interlacing issues..... I found out later that she didnt have the foggiest idea herself....


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Rafael Amador
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 12, 2013 at 4:06:14 am

I guess you have shoot p24 (23,98) with added pull down.
You need to remove the pull down to get plain p23,98, then edit on a p23,98 sequence,
or edit your footage as it is on a 29,97 Lower First sequence.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Stu Gilbert
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 13, 2013 at 12:11:35 am

what's a Lower First sequence?


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Rafael Amador
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 13, 2013 at 3:38:02 am

In short: Video fields order comes in three flavors: Upper First, Lower First and Progressive (NONE).
Interlaced footage needs to be edited keeping a certain field order.
If you are dealing with DV footage you must know that DV footage is "Lower First" and so must be edited on a "Lower First" sequence.
If you have FC.6, please have a look to the "FC Help". Interlacing is very well explained there.
rafael


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Stu Gilbert
Re: Major Interlacing (?) Issues w/ Glass Front TVs (NTSC)
on Feb 16, 2013 at 8:41:47 pm

Sorry I havent gotten back in a couple days....
I checked, and the sequence is already set to Lower First.

And, perhaps in a gross oversight on my part, I realized I did not check the actual burned DVD on the computer, just the exported quicktime file.
The DVD is doing the same thing...... (could it have something to do w/ making it w/ iDVD?)
The mouths moving doesnt seem to cause it, it appears to be left and right movements, if that narrows anything down

from the computer, playing the DVD-





Also, whats the FC Help you're talking about? Here, on CC? I must be a bigger idiot than I thought, cause I cant seem to locate it...
I get the basic theory of interlacing, fields, etc, I'm getting hung up trying to get my mind around progressive/ true progressive/etc. I thought that progressive skirted that problem. Clearly, it has its own.


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