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Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time

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shari due
Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 7:11:02 am

The film is 50:32, but every time I export to this format (which is what my client has requested) it cuts off at 48:33. Weird. I've cleared and reset in and out points--doesn't matter--video and audio or audio only--still does the same thing. Even tried to do parts of footage. Whatever I compress in this format it cuts off 2 minutes before the outpoint. Anyone know what's going on?
Thanks so much!

Shari


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Nick Meyers
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 10:38:56 am

what format (including frame rate) is your footage, and your sequence?

nick


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shari due
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 2:13:32 pm

My footage is HD 1080/24p, sequence is 24 fps, frame size 720 x 480, pixel aspect is ntsc-ccir 601. Can it not be converted to PAL uncompressed at this point?
Shari

Shari


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Rafael Amador
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 2:31:54 pm

I would start by trashing FC preferences.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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shari due
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 2:59:12 pm

Okay. I did that. And I just made a sequence with uncompressed 8 bit PAL settings and copied my NTSC sequence into it. It's two minutes shorter but didn't cut off the end, so I'll see what it looks like after rendering. It's a diff in frame rate (?) or something betw NTSC and PAL. Hope I can make this work! Any other ideas?

Shari


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Steve Eisen
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 3:33:24 pm

[shari due] "I just made a sequence with uncompressed 8 bit PAL settings and copied my NTSC sequence into it"

Not the correct workflow. You need to convert your footage with Compressor or use Nattress Standards Conversion.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Creative Pro Users Group


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shari due
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 3:39:07 pm

Do I convert it clip by clip, taking each clip from the browser and then converting, then reimporting? This is a mess. I clearly should have researched it first. Please advise on the simplest way to do this. Thanks so much.

Shari


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shari due
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 3:59:06 pm

Hi Steve.
I looked at Natress. It seems like the simplest way to do this. Have you used Nattress successfully to convert a fully edited sequence from NTSC to PAL?
Thanks.

Shari


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Steve Eisen
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 6:46:35 pm

I have.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Creative Pro Users Group


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shari due
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 6:57:31 pm

Great. I'm using it now--5 hours to render, then we'll see. Thanks.

Shari


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shari due
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 3:29:58 pm

So I see that I need to remove 5 fps to convert from NTSC to PAL? How can this be done when the footage is already shot, transferred and fully edited in a sequence? I just made a sequence with uncompressed, 8 bit PAL and copied the NTSC sequence into it and it messed everything up.

Shari


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Neil Patience
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 6:18:34 pm

Hi Shari

You cant just drop an NTSC sequence into a PAL timeline and render it as you have obviously discovered. To be honest the correct and best way to deal with this is to create your NTSC master and then have a hardware standards conversion using Tenerex or something similar to create a proper PAL master.
I have used the Natress Standards Converter plug in and it does work. Although I have never used it on a whole show, more usually just odd clips that I have needed to convert. However its certainly worth a try. I would export a quicktime of your complete programme and then try using Natress on that as a single clip.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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shari due
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 6:38:09 pm

Thanks Neil. Live and learn. I'm trying Nattress and if that doesn't work (won't know until 5 more hours of rendering), I'll try importing the .mov of the whole show, then converting with Nattress. Problem is my client wants this exported uncompressed so she can import it into her FCP and add Arabic subtitles. If I import my .mov it's already compressed.
I'm not a techie at all, but a producer/director, storyteller. It's been a while since I've made a mistake this big. But this is new territory for me, the PAL, and I certainly should have researched it better going in. Good thing I did this one dirt cheap.

I appreciate this group so much. Thanks y'all.

Shari


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Neil Patience
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 7:55:16 pm

Hi Shari

Yes I forgot to mention that the render was going to be a while. You can export an "uncompressed" Quicktime but as you rightly point out its already compressed but there is nothing you can do about that so you can only do what you can do.
As you say, live and learn but you are no means alone. The proliferation of formats, codecs and frame sizes has lead to it being much easier to make a mistake especially as often you need to end up with a variety of formats.
Hope it works out - happy rendering :-)

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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Nick Meyers
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 8:19:06 pm

i would have edited in an HD timeline that matched the footage.

less rendering, faster exports, looks better, and is future-proof.

now you have reduced the frame size to NTSC standards, and are now blowing it up slightly to PAL standards.

so, Edit in the native format,
export,
convert to NTSC for NTSC markets
re-imort and apply Nattress for PAL markets

OR an alternative to Nattress

conform your 24fps export to 25fp in Cinema Tools, then export if to PAL.
your show would play a tiny bit faster. you WOULD be a minute shorter, but your WOULDN'T loose any frames.

this wont work for everyone.

working in Prores would be just as effective as uncompressed.



nick


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Neil Patience
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 8:39:16 pm

Actually the Cinema tools option suggested by Nick is a good one and may be worth a try. There will be no artefacts on the pictures, that will be nice and smooth. However you would need to speed up the audio by about 4% (I think) in order for it to sync. My maths is so rubbish.
To do this export a self contained Quicktime of your final master. Use Cinema Tools to conform it from 24 to 25 - that will take moments no rendering.
Then start a PAL project and import your conformed Quicktime. Thats the really easy bit.
Then use Soundtrack Pro to speed up the audio by 4%

Hopefully there is nothing in the audio that really notices, its quite a small change.

I would be tempted to give that a shot you may find it better quality than using the plug in. The speed change is inevitable of course.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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Nick Meyers
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 2, 2012 at 11:13:17 pm

if the audio is part of the exported file, then it will be sped up along with the picture.

there will be a corresponding rise in pitch,
which you can either live with, or try to correct.

FCP & Soundtrack Pro have pitch correction tools,
STP's maybe better than FCP, i don't know.
but i do know that neither of them are very good compared to what a true professional audio tool could do.


nick


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Neil Patience
Re: Exporting in uncompressed 8 bit PAL, it cuts a minute off the film every time
on Dec 3, 2012 at 1:41:31 am

Thanks Nick of course it is, I am so used to using it with material without audio I totally forgot that point.

DOH!

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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