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Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame

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Cliff Wrangler
Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Oct 19, 2012 at 12:51:13 am

I'm pretty sure I know the answer from doing research, but I thought I would ask...

I have a client that has footage shot at 1920x1080 23.98. She wants the master to be 1080i2997. I told her the best way is to do a hardware conversion, but she said no because of the cost. So then I recommended After Effects but it would take a long time. I showed her a sample and she wasn't happy of how the pulldown added a blended field after 3 frames. So then she told me she can do this in Compressor with a fast setting that would duplicate the fourth frame- similar to what FCP does when you just drop a 2398 clip in a 2997 sequence. She liked the cleaner look from this conversion when we stepped through each frame.

The truth is , when we play back on the monitor, but versions look fine. Can anyone help on deciding whether the compressor duplicate a frame method will work for broadcast?

Thanks


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Shane Ross
Re: Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Oct 19, 2012 at 2:36:40 am

If you do this progressive, every 4th frame will be repeated. If you do this interlaced, then you get the blending on the 3rd and 4th frame.

Now, what I don't get is that they want it mastered interlaced...so why doesn't she want it interlaced? That is the smoothest way to do this, and how film telecine to tape is done...frame blending.

BUT...go with what the client wants. Unless the network will QC the tape and kick it back for repeated frame...what they like to call "a cadence issue."

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Cliff Wrangler
Re: Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Oct 19, 2012 at 3:44:39 am

Even though they want to master 1080i2997, she doesn't like look of the blended frames, particularly when it happens on a cut. If we go with the duplicated frame, it will still be 1080i2997 correct? You said it would be progressive, so is this like a fake interlaced when you duplicate fields? I want to make sure her Quicktimes are good as well. These are for promo spots that will be sent to DG.

As for the cadence issue, how often is that called out during QC?

Thanks for the response Shane.


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Shane Ross
Re: Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Oct 19, 2012 at 8:01:48 am

[Cliff Wrangler] "If we go with the duplicated frame, it will still be 1080i2997 correct?"

Not really. It will be 1080p 29.97. It won't be interlaced. Will the client notice this? Meaning, the person your client is delivering too...I'll call them THE NETWORK. The network, will it notice this? maybe.

[Cliff Wrangler] " You said it would be progressive, so is this like a fake interlaced when you duplicate fields?"

No, it's REALLY interlaced when you blend the frames...when you add the 3/2 pulldown. If you duplicate frames, you aren't interlacing anything.

[Cliff Wrangler] " I want to make sure her Quicktimes are good as well."

Well, for displaying on a computer...web delivery, this is the way you want to go. Web doesn't do interlacing. Although, for the web I wouldn't change the frame rate, and then you won't have duplicate frames. But that's not what's called for...1080i 29.97 is called for. An interlaced QT. Which she won't be getting. But...she's the client, you deliver what the client asks for. You can inform them about what they are getting, but the decision in theirs.

[Cliff Wrangler] "As for the cadence issue, how often is that called out during QC?"

Depends on the network. I've had it go through, and I've had it kicked back. More often than not, kicked back. But, give the client what she wants, if it gets kicked back, you fix it...and charge for the fix. because the mistake won't be yours.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Oct 19, 2012 at 6:03:56 pm

[Cliff Wrangler] "I have a client that has footage shot at 1920x1080 23.98. She wants the master to be 1080i2997... I recommended After Effects but it would take a long time. I showed her a sample and she wasn't happy of how the pulldown added a blended field after 3 frames."

Oops! You didn't use After Effects properly.

First and foremost, the frame rate is NOT 23.98. It's 23.976. That tiny difference can mess things up in a hurry. Make sure you've got it right.

In AE, drop the 23.976 file onto the Make Comp icon at the bottom of the project window. You'll get a 23.976 comp. Add the comp to the AE Render Queue. In the Render Settings, select "Add 3:2 Pulldown". Choose any one of the five pulldown patterns; it shouldn't make much difference. Also in render settings, make sure you select the proper Field Order; for 1080, it's Upper Field First.

Render and you're done. All is well.

There really aren't any software-based magic wands for this stuff to go from 24p to 30p. You use hardware to do it, but that's not an option for you.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Ali Quintana
Re: Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:07:10 pm

Dear Sir, I saw this old post about 23.98 being 23.976.

I have Blackmagic cinema Ca 2.5K. in the cam it says as a selective frame rate 23.98 which I shot a commercial in.

Do I still need to use 23.976 in AE or just 23.98?


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Shane Ross
Re: Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:08:28 pm

23.976 is the actual frame rate. We just short-hand it to 23.98. 23.976 is the proper rate you should choose.

I wish we were ALL in PAL land. 25...25...25...ONLY 25.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Ali Quintana
Re: Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:14:51 pm

Yes Pall land...

but then why does AE even give the option of choosing 23.98....????

I just edited my whole 30 sec commercial and choose 23.98


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Ali Quintana
Re: Convert 23.98 to 29.97 with a duplicated frame
on Dec 2, 2013 at 7:15:15 pm

Yes Pall land...

but then why does AE even give the option of choosing 23.98....????

I just edited my whole 30 sec commercial and choose 23.98


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