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Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro

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Kate Bones
Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 8:07:34 pm

Hello there and thanks in advance for any help.

I'm editing a rock-umentary style music video and I've shot some of the footage using a canon 5d mkii at 24fps. I've converted this using 5DtoRGB to apple pro res 422 codec. We've also decided to use footage shot on an iPhone 4 which has come out at 29.97fps. To make matters even more complicated :) we've also shot some footage on a mini DV camcorder (3CCD semi pro sony model) footage which I've imported as DV pal.

I'm about to start editing using FCP 7 but before i start I want to work out how to deal with the mixed frame rates.

The final video will mainly be used on the web and potentially for broadcast in the UK and Europe.

Apologies if I've left out any details.

Best

Kate


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Shane Ross
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 8:59:50 pm

[Kate Bones] "before i start I want to work out how to deal with the mixed frame rates."

Convert everything to a unifor frame rate BEFORE you edit. You will have to use Compressor for this, and dig into the FRAME CONTROLS and set them to BEST. This all needs to be done BEFORE you start editing, not after.

[Kate Bones] "The final video will mainly be used on the web and potentially for broadcast in the UK and Europe."

This should have been taken into consideration before you shot. You need 25fps, and two of your formats are NTSC based. The only one that is right is the PAL DV. You need to convert everything to 25fps. The web does 25, and Europe does 25.

Next time know your target output and plan accordingly. Shoot 25fps with the Canon. You can do that.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Kate Bones
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 9:49:27 pm

Thanks for the reply.

I actually did begin to shoot in 25fps but was told to shoot in 24fps as this gave the best results. The most film like effect. I was also told 5DtoRGB was the best way to convert the footage.

Are you advising me to convert all my footage, canon, camcorder and iphone to apple pro res 422 at 25 fps?


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Shane Ross
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 10:02:07 pm

The difference between 24fps and 25fps is very minor. I doubt you'd see it when shooting. They are practically identical.

And yes, I am advising you to convert everything to 25fps, as that is the PAL standard. If you want to air this in Europe, then you need to deliver a 25fps master.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 10:01:42 pm

[Kate Bones] "Are you advising me to convert all my footage, canon, camcorder and iphone to apple pro res 422 at 25 fps?"

Yes. That's exactly what he's advising you to do. And I second his approach. Everything same frame rate (25) and same codec (ProRes) BEFORE you start editing. It will save you from so many headaches.

But if you like pain....

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes


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Kate Bones
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 10:18:09 pm

Thanks for the advice. I'm a little miffed as to why I was advised by SO many people to shoot in 24fps! Is that a UK specific thing? Or a canon 5d mkii thing. Hmmmmm...

Also do I have tot use compressor or can I use 5DtoRGB? Apparently it's the best converter.


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 10:30:23 pm

[Kate Bones] "why I was advised by SO many people to shoot in 24fps!"

People often equate the "cinematic look" with 24fps. However, if you're intended audience lives in a broadcast 25fps world then you'll have to convert as some point. UK, most of Eurpoe, much of Africa, Australia, India, China, etc are all PAL format - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/PAL-NTSC-SECAM.svg

In the future, just know where you're going to deliver to and shoot in that frame rate to start with. Or realize that you may still want to shoot at 24fps but you'll need to convert footage at some point to either 25fps (PAL) or 30fps (NTSC) for broadcast delivery (fwiw~this is a different discussion if you're intended audience is internet based).

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes


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Kate Bones
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 10:41:48 pm

At the moment its definitely going to be shown mainly on the web but I wanted the option to be able to send it to festivals to be screened and potentially for TV as the band are pretty popular in Europe. So to save any pain I wanted to get things right at this early stage. I've only just started importing my files to FCP so I can and should make any necessary changes now.

So I can conclude that the advice is to change all the footage to 25fps apple pro res 422....


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Shane Ross
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 10:54:40 pm

If this is POTENTIALLY for European distribution, you might be better served sticking with 23.98...24p...and then converting to 25fps after...via a hardware standards converter when you sell the show and have a better budget to do that with. 24 goes to 25 fine. My only thought was the footage that was already 25fps.

But, that's my thought. You shot mainly 23.98...and it's main goal was web, so keep that aim in mind.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 11:06:03 pm

[Shane Ross] "But, that's my thought. You shot mainly 23.98...and it's main goal was web, so keep that aim in mind."

I would just add - pick a frame rate now. So if it's 23.98 then make everything 23.98. If it's 25 go with 25. Your original post lists 24 (23.98) and 30 (29.97) as recorded formats, with the majority being 24. So if you do 24 then convert the iPhone to 24, edit, export.

With the finished export you can then convert the 24 to 25 for any distribution needs in Europe.

Or just go with 25 right from the start....

FYI-there is no "right way" or "wrong way." There are just different ways of doing this. Each has it's pros and cons.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes


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Kate Bones
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 11:07:57 pm

Thanks for putting my mind at ease! i was starting to panic a little over here! I'll convert it all to one frame rate and follow your advice.

Many thanks! And have a wonderful august!

:D


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Michael Gissing
Re: Mixed Formats in Final Cut Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 11:36:34 pm

Being for a band, bear in mind audio pitch. There are two ways to convert frame rate - speed change or real time. Speed change affects pitch AND tempo. Whilst there is good software like Pitch n Time or MPEX3 or iZotope RX2 to correct pitch, the band might notice tempo changes so again, plan ahead for the main market and also choose carefully the method of frame rate conversion.


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