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vid rate / timecode conflict

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marrian johnson
vid rate / timecode conflict
on Jul 15, 2012 at 4:53:21 am


i should have probably noticed this at some point while i was editing, but i didn't.
my clips all say 23.98 in the "vid rate" column, but when i play the clip, each second
has 25 frames. what's going on here?

i was provided the project and media already prepped, but i was told that the RED
files were converted to 25fps prores files and then taken into cinema tools and
converted to 23.98. i imagine that that has something to do with it.

i'd appreciate any help you can provide.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: vid rate / timecode conflict
on Jul 15, 2012 at 2:10:05 pm

CinemaTools can set the FPS of a QT.
Probably it did not reset the TC to the new FPS.

If this is a problem, you could try QTchange.
Set it to 23.976, load the clip and do a 'refresh tc track'
This will set the TC to 23.976 (aka FCP 23.98) tc.
Now, it uses the first frame to be the same,
however, the 25 fps frame 00:00:00:24 of course does not exist in 23.976!
That will be set to 00:00:01:00.

I'm not sure what the implications are if you already started editing, and i don't know what the implications are if you need to go back to the original R3D files.

It is possible to alter the original R3D TC as well, but if things go wrong, you're in for a bag of hurt.
So, make sure you have a backup of the files before you do anything with the files, and test the entire workflow.

Another suggestion is to confront your client with this problem and let them sign for you to walk free in case of potential disaster.


smart tools for video pros

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Michael Gissing
Re: vid rate / timecode conflict
on Jul 16, 2012 at 12:27:28 am

The single most important thing in an offline/online workflow is to maintain matching timecode. This means you cannot change frame rate.

This has huge implications if there is separate audio to be conformed later or a grade where the intent is to use the R3D originals which is desirable and typical.

I would stop right now and have a big discussion with everyone involved in the post to find out why the frame rate was altered and how the project is being graded and sound posted because I sense a disaster.

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marrian johnson
Re: vid rate / timecode conflict
on Jul 16, 2012 at 3:42:12 am

I figured out what it was. There's an option called "24 @ 25" under "rate" in the Timecode setting, so instead of 24 it was set to 24@25. There was an assistant at the shoot who converted all the RED files to prores and then the director actually prepped the project for me. He thought that the assistant made a mistake by creating 25fps prores files from the RED files so he took them into cinema tools and converted them to 24 and provided them to me to cut from (we're about to prep for finishing). After noticing the 23.98 frame rate and then the 25 frames and changing it to 24, I asked him to make sure that he's seeing the same frame as I am in the original RED files. He said that it looks like the camera was accidentally set to a 25 timebase, recording at 24, so no it doesn't. I don't have the original RED files, so I didn't know that this was the case. The solution might be to get the original converted prores clips (at 25fps) back and overcut?

It's for a low-budget short film...which is usually the kind of work that has some kind of technical mess-up whether in production or post (in this case, both), so i'm not surprised, but unfortunately, the client is a big one with a real deadline coming up, so I'm hoping to figure something out quickly.

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Michael Gissing
Re: vid rate / timecode conflict
on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:38:26 am

If the original is 25 then it makes sense to do everything at that rate and then if required, change the frame rate of the final master. Audio pitch off the final mix can be corrected.

If everything was shot 25 then all the audio pitch will be off if the files were changed after conversion to ProRes.

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