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Blu Ray Baby

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brian paterson
Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 1, 2012 at 2:45:48 am

Hi,
I am trying to make my first blu ray disc and have spent two days reading the many suggested ways of doing this. I have opted to try a workflow posted here in June of last year which suggests outputting a quicktime movie from FCP, encoding the file to MPEG4 Blu Ray using Adobe Media Encoder then importing it into Encore CS5 to author for Blu ray burning. ( Sounds Easy.) My questions are:- first of all in the Media Encoder format menu there is no MPEG 4 Blu Ray option, only MPEG2 BluRay or H264 Blu Ray -which should I use ?. Question 2: Is it all right for me to use a reference file from fcp to Media Encoder or should it be a self contained quicktime file.? Second question : It all seemed to work with a reference file but now I have four NEW files on my drive which are- m2v.xmpses -.wav -.xmp -.m2v -which of them do I use with Encore to author the Blu Ray file. Last Question can I output a disk image from Encore to burn the disk using toast, in the same way I make a disc image and burn a DVD using toast.
I have done lots of research and would be making some tests right now but my newly ordered Blu Ray burner has not arrived and with the Jubilee extended bank holiday here in the U.K it might be another week until the post gets through. I will then be up against it timewise to deliver to my client hence me asking for help here.
Looking forward to some advice to get me going and prepare for the arrival of the burner.
Incidentally any advice on when and where to create a simple chapter menu in this process would be appreciated. i.e in FCP or in Encore. Many Thanks BRIAN PATERSON

brian paterson


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Michael Gissing
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 1, 2012 at 2:59:47 am

H264 is mpeg4. The quicktime wrapped version is just called H264. Blu Ray can be either H264 or mpeg2.

Always make your FCP QT exports self contained otherwise all hell breaks loose when the source media is moved, deleted or the drive they were on is unplugged.

Don't know the Adobe software but you should be able to burn directly to disk from the software or via an ISO file with any disk burn software that can use a blu ray ISO. It is possible to burn blu ray format to RED laser disks if the program is short and the data rate isn't too high.


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brian paterson
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 1, 2012 at 10:49:00 am

Hi Michael thanks for the reply, excuse my ignorance re- mpeg4/H264 i am fairly new to all of this. Upon further research I see that Ken Stone does not recommend using H264 for building Blu Ray with Encore as it wants to transcode all of the H.264 files before building the project taking days to do and creating massive files.
I made a 5 minute 'test' reference file from final cut (because the original is two hours long.) The timeline sequence codec is xdcam ex 1080i50. I then took this reference file into Adobe Media Encoder and chose the Mpeg2 Blue Ray option from the menu to output a file to use in Encore to build the disk image. As I just said the edit I have completed in FCP is nearly two hours long hence me thinking of going the quicker route by making a reference file and ( please correct me if I am wrong) I though by eventually outputting a disc image from Encore ( if it will do that ) it wouldn't then matter if the original reference material was moved or disconnected. ( is that right ?)
With regards to the four files output from Adobe Media Encoder on the Five minute test I did can you confirm which ones I will need to build the blu Ray disc image in Encore. The files are :- m2v.xmpses, an xmp file, a .wav file and a .m2v file - I am guessing the WAV file and the M2V file ( which has the apple compressor icon on it even though it was output from an Adobe application ) but what about the other two ? I have opened Encore and looked at it but have never used it, the whole process is a mystery and I am just trying to understand it to learn and form a simple workflow for the future. I seem to read about so many complicated variations and so many problems that it is all quite worrying and stressful, even before I begin.
Looking forward to your reply. Many thanks - Brian.

brian paterson


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brian paterson
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 1, 2012 at 12:24:47 pm

Hi Again, Whilst waiting for a reply to my last post can anyone answer this simple question.
If I make a Blu Ray disc image with Encore will I be able to burn a Blu Ray disc using that disc image using toast 9. I just went into toast 9 to check if my new Blu Ray burner was being recognised ( which it is )
but when I clicked on Burn Blu Ray Video in toast it said the toast titanium 9 HD/BD plug in was required.
If I select 'Copy' in toast 9 I can select "Image file" without any messages popping up so presumeably I can burn to Blue ray from that menu using a Blu Ray disc image. Is this correct? I am just starting this process of making my first Blu Ray disc and as yet I have not made the disc image to test it out with but just wanted to try and work out the whole process before beginning and wasting disks etc.

brian paterson


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:02:28 pm

If you have encore - don't bother with Toast. With Toast 9 and higher, you need to buy a plug-in or patch to burn Bluray.

But Encore is FAR better.

You can use a ref file from FCP if you want to. In either case, export a file from FCP, drop it into AME.

Choose the Mpeg2 Bluray preset in AME.
Import the files into encore, set your first play, preview and burn.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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brian paterson
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 1, 2012 at 1:38:22 pm

Thanks Chris,
It's good to have some straight to the point basic uncomplicated advice on this subject. I will try it right now for my first run.
The complications can always come later, such as building menus etc but this sounds like good basic stuff to get me started.

Many Thanks.
BRIAN.

brian paterson


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Rafael Amador
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 4, 2012 at 2:06:11 am

[brian paterson] " I see that Ken Stone does not recommend using H264 for building Blu Ray with Encore as it wants to transcode all of the H.264 files before building the project taking days to do and creating massive files."
This is not true.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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brian paterson
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 4, 2012 at 10:01:34 am

Hi Rafael,
Research on the internet is a bit like ying and yang it seems with every written experience having a polar opposite so I guess in the end making one's own tests are the final proof. However with machines designed by humans one has to interact with them in order to find out how they are built and what they do. One cannot learn in a vacum. Sitting in a room alone with a computer and the internet I admit is not an ideal way to learn new programmes as it can take weeks to take those first few steps and get up to running speed but I see no alternative other than paying huge amounts of money to be taught by a real person ( which I can't afford). Therefore one can only take on trust what others with experience have to say on the internet. I have now made my own first two tests and found that what you say seems to be correct ( at least for me ) in that the files I made from AME did not need transcoding in Encore. Maybe Ken Stone made his initial files in another way ( I can't remember now ) The permutations in doing tests are endless which is why such forums as the Cow are such a great help. I often wish the manufactures of computer programmes would do a better job with their manuals. Maybe they should make two. The one they always make and then a step by step book outlining how to make ( in this case) that first Blu ray disc for e.g. I don't need to know how and engine works to drive my car and in the first instance I don't need to know all about the technicalities of codecs or why and what things are for etc I just want to know which buttons to press to make it happen. After that (if I am interested ) then I can start to look into refining the process or making myself more knowledgeable. Why is this concept so difficult for manufacturers to take on board. I have spent days reading up on the problems others have had with this process to the point where I am frightened to touch anything in case it is the wrong thing to do. And if it is what will the eventual outcome be. If it was a five minute video I wouldn't mind but when it is two hours long and from what I read will take forever to make then I need to be sure it's not all going to go tits up in the end result or be sent back by the client because it won't play properly or is rubbish quality. O.k Enough!!! - sorry for the rant and I do appreciate all the advice from everyone. - I am slowly getting there and learning lots but as this is the first client request for Blu ray in two years my fear is that all I am learning will be forgotten if I don't get another Blu Ray request for another two years. - Hey Ho such is life - Thank again BRIAN.

brian paterson


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Rafael Amador
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 4, 2012 at 12:16:27 pm

Hi Brian,
Probably Ken Stone's article was wrote some time ago.
I remember than 2 or three years ago (search this forum) they where problems when trying to use h264 with Encore, so people had to stick with the MPEG-2. things had changed and you shouldn't have problem using H264 with the software that you have mentioned.
H264 is a better option.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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brian paterson
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 9, 2012 at 10:18:52 am

Hello.

I won't go into all the complications and explanations of my recent tests for creating blue ray discs with menus and chapters etc. Suffice to say I am progressing fairly well albeit slowly and am getting close to the final stages of actually burning the material. My question here is a simple one. If I create a Blu Ray Disc Image from ENCORE can I burn multiple copies in Toast 9 by dragging the Disc Image to "copy disc". -
This process has always worked well for me when making DVDs. Is it exactly the same with Blu Ray or will I need the blu ray plug in. I thought the plug in was for writing AVCHD to ordinary DVDs whereas I intend to burn a blu ray Disc Image to a blu ray disc using an external blu ray burner. So can I do that via the toast ( copy / image file, menu ) without having to use a plug in.
I cannot find a yes or no answer to this anywhere.
I though by using a disc image I would be able to avoid all the encoding that would have to be done each and every time to make six copies ( The video is two hours long )
Any advice much appreciated before I start making coasters out of expensive discs.



Thanks.

brian paterson


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 9, 2012 at 11:45:35 am

Have you tried the BD disc image w/ Toast?

The other option if that does not work for you:

Burn then one at a time out of Encore, it will not re-encode anything again and again - just burn to disc.

Burn first one and put in and with toast- copy disc. (I find this option painfully slow)

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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brian paterson
Re: Blu Ray Baby
on Jun 9, 2012 at 1:15:30 pm

Hi Chris, Thanks for the reply.
I am just investigating which BD discs I should get so don't actually have any media to try out in toast or Encore as yet. I am also unsure as yet what size files I might end up with ( and therefore what size discs to get ) so am going through the process of making the initial files at present to see.
I made a four minute test last week which seemed O.K. then yesterday made the full 2hr MPG 4 file which took over eight hours to convert in Adobe Media Encoder. It is 18 .5 gigabyte and I have just tried to bring it into Encore Cs5. The wheels spin around seemingly forever and I force quit it a couple of times thinking there might be a problem. I have now read somewhere it might take a while but have no idea how long. ( I now assume it's bringing in the whole file and not just a reference of it. ) Could this take another eight hours or could it be a lot shorter.? Will the output file be the same size as the input file ? It all a mystery right now so don't know whether I should sit here and wait or go in the garden and cut logs for the rest of the day. After that I don't know what size file I will end up with or how long I should expect it to take to output a disk image. It's all quite worrying and painful not knowing what to expect or whether I am doing it right or wrong or whether after all that it might not work. I have searched everywhere for these answers but had no luck.
Regards burning several copies out of encore I am quite happy to do that if it is as quick as doing it with toast but what happens when I shut everything down and go back in the future to make another copy. Will it just as easily ( and quickly) burn another copy. Will I have to make a disk image to use with encore to do this or just use the normal output files.
So many questions so few answers.
Any help is most welcome. Many Thanks - BRIAN.

brian paterson


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