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Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...

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Karel De Cock
Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 20, 2012 at 7:57:01 pm

Dear all,

As stated in the title I have a very annoying issue with syncing sound in FCP 7. Source material is 7D 1080 25P. Eveything is transcoded to Prores 442 HQ 1080p.

Audio comes from the Zoom h4n in WAV.

The sound starts to slip 30s after the sync point. All sound is 48Khz 16bit. I only read about bad internal clocks in zoom H4's, not the H4n.

Here is the frustrating part: In AVID MC6 everything works fine! Everything syncs up and stays that way.

I tried everything, exporting sound files from Protools, avid but nothing seems to work. Once in FCP everything goes wrong... even tried Automatic Duck and AAF files...

Any suggestions?

I'm out of ideas...

Cheers,
Karel.


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Neil Patience
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 20, 2012 at 8:43:54 pm

I was told the other day that if you slow the Zoom audio to 99.89% it should fit. I have not tried this but it seems the error is pretty constant.

Interesting it works in Avid though.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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Nicolas Alonso
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 20, 2012 at 11:01:25 pm

Thanks Neil. I'll try that.
Cheers!


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Tony Brittan
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 21, 2012 at 2:39:12 am

Did it work?


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Nicolas Alonso
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 21, 2012 at 2:38:04 pm

I have yet not been abla to discover how to calculate what would the 99.89 % of the duration would be.
Is that a normal rule of three
ie:
00:06:18:23 =100%
x = 99.89%

Would that be the way or is ther a stryaight forward tool in FCP or other to get this done?


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 21, 2012 at 2:54:27 pm

[Nicolas Alonso] "Would that be the way or is ther a stryaight forward tool in FCP or other to get this done?"

STP has a Pull-up/Pull-down function that's perfect for this. I'm not sure how to batch all clips through it, but you should take a look. The manual will be helpful to you, and there is most likely a Youtube video on the subject too, as I have found there is one on every other subject under the sun now.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com
http://www.ProMax.com
Sales | Integration | Support


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Nicolas Alonso
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 21, 2012 at 4:06:38 pm

Great, thanks. I'll have a look there.

Thanks again.


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Phillip Todd
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 21, 2012 at 12:07:20 pm

I have the exact same problem with my GH1 24P (hacked) or GH2 24P (un-hacked and hacked) footage and my ZoomH4n (48KHz/16). In FCP 7.0.3 on OS10.5 and OS 10.6 (QTX) all footage transcoded to ProRes LT, audio always 48KHz/16 in a ProResLT FCP sequence.

My workaround after lots of frustration was to set my audio clip speed to 100.09%. That has solved the problem every time for me.

I will check out the tutorial mentioned below (THANKS!) about time stamping. I had previously thought it had to do with the fact that true 24P actually runs at 23.976 FPS, but QT reports it as 23.98 FPS. So an audio speed increase ca. .04% was necessary... and .09% actually worked. Recently I noticed in VLC 2.0 the fps reported as 23.976xxxxxx. The x's were not zeros to my surprise. Lots of new issues with these inexpensive devices rushed to market, I guess.

Phillip Todd
Cinematographer
Philadelphia - NYC - Zurich

http://vimeo.com/philliptodd


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Phillip Todd
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on May 1, 2012 at 2:39:31 pm

Follow-Up:
When I started that projects I was on FCP 7 on 10.5 Leopard.
After transcoding my AVCHD files to QT ProRes I noticed that QT7 was showing massive macrblocking in my images. QTX in 10.6 on another system did not have this macroblocking so I upgraded mid project to 10.6. I had no choice.
I finished the edit and delivered without a problem until...
While archiving the project I got some error messages and had to "reconnect media" for some of my Zoom H4n files and then got a lot of FCP error messages about sequences & in and out points that would be affected. I went into those sequences and saw that everying was out of sync by a small amount. I removed my audio clip speed change of 100.9% (workaround for this problem described above) and the clips played in sync again.

After reading the very good article below, I now think my sync issues were related to QT7 not being able to read the flags in the Zoom H4n files, but, QT X can! I am looking forward to NOT have this problem on my next project.

This was one case where it did pay to upgrade the OS of a working system, both in image quality and sync sound. In retrospect I shouldn't have expected my new devices to work with older software.

Phillip Todd
Cinematographer
Philadelphia - NYC - Zurich

http://vimeo.com/philliptodd


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Matt Lyon
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 21, 2012 at 3:20:11 am

The audio should sync fine, as long as you set up FCP to properly import your audio without the timestamping issue that plagues so many people. Follow the second half of my tutorial and it should fix everything:

http://library.creativecow.net/lyon_matt/fixing-fcp-assets/1

hth,
Matt

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Karel De Cock
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 21, 2012 at 7:03:57 am

Hey Matt, thanks a million!

I started kicking myself for buying a zoom and not investing in a Tascam :-).
I'm happy to know it was just FCP.

I'll try to keep an eye out for those green bars in the future!

Cheers,
Karel.


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Neil Patience
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Mar 21, 2012 at 3:59:03 pm

I was basing my reply on a thread I was involved in last week where the same question was asked.

We currently change the audio speed to 99.89 (or something like that) to bring it back in sync.
We record all audio at 48,000 on the deck and camera, but it always slips out of sync. I've tried several times to get an answer for this but noone has had a decent one yet?!


The answer was:

THANK YOU SO MUCH! I have no idea why you would have to slow down the audio to 99.89%, or how you figured that out for that matter... but it worked!


I have completed a couple of 5D projects without sync issue but this seems to come up again and again so I was wondering if I was just lucky.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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Michael Santana
Re: Canon 7D footage + Zoom h4n --> Slips out of sync (all sound is 48Khz 16bit) (Image 25p) in Avid works fine...
on Jun 9, 2015 at 4:35:31 pm

Hello. I screwed up and need some help. I shot my project at 24fps, and when I did all of the ADR, it was recorded at 29fps (in respect to the timeline matching). I didn't realize that until now. Instead of re-dubbing everything, is there a way to convert the ADR back down to 24fps or close? We used the h4 zoom. Thank you.


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