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Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro

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Patrick Simpson
Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 9:49:23 pm

Hi,

I'm working on a feature film that is in post production.

Our specs:
Mac Pro, 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
16 GB of Ram
Mac OS X 10.6.8

The footage is spread across four 2TB internal hard drives. Each drive has at least 100 GB free. The system drive has 54 GB free. The project file itself is on the system drive.

The footage Red 4K footage transcoded to ProRes 422 HQ at 2K; there is also some 5D footage transcoded to ProRes 422 HQ at 1080p.

Since it is a feature film, there is rarely more than one layer of video playing. Until recently the footage has been playing back with no dropped frames and no problems. Now, it has begun dropping frames during playback. No other apps are open on the machine during playback.

It does seem to drop frames on the same clip, but it is multiple clips throughout the timeline and from different hard drives. I thought it could be because it is a large project file (198mb) so I copied the timeline into a brand new project and it still drops frames in the same places.

Any ideas?


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Bret Williams
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 9:53:49 pm

Are the drives raided together? I'm impressed it was playing before. But sounds like your drives are full as well. Was perhaps the "report dropped frames" checkbox not turned on before, and now someone turned it back on? And, does it really matter that it drops frames? You're outputting to tape I suppose?


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 9:54:23 pm

Your main issue is that your media drives are way too full. If you acquire Disk Warrior and run it on all drives you might get some immediate relief, but 5% free space on those drives is simply not a good idea.

Above and beyond that, you really should have striped those drives together in a RAID 0 configuration.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 9:55:43 pm

If there is only 100 gig per drive that is 5% free. !0% free space is considered a minumum. You can check your drives by running the free AJA or Decklink speed disk test software available from their websites.

Are the internal drives in a RAID configuration or just individual drives. If individual drives then they may be unable to keep up with 2K HQ footage. You might have been lucky in the past but with drives so full, your problems are not surprising.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 9:56:44 pm

Need more coffee to keep up with Bret & David....


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 10:01:52 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Need more coffee to keep up with Bret & David...."

I'm impressed that you and I were both able to quickly and correctly calculate that Patrick had just 5% remaining. Senility has not set in just yet, no matter what the 20-somethings say about us.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 10:16:37 pm

Senility has crept in David. The 20 somethings are out conquering the world, while we sit wisely answering like old sages. Crazy!


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 10:45:40 pm

[Michael Gissing] "The 20 somethings are out conquering the world, while we sit wisely answering like old sages. Crazy!"

Well Michael, your tomatoes, goats, and sheep are a great way to conquer many of the world's needs, and they're good for your soul too.

BTW, I actually start conquering the world again on Monday, as I undertake a new job, which I'll announce here soon.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 10:50:21 pm

I am the only goat on this farm. Beef cattle, sheep, chickens, ducks, fruit and veg here.

Look forward to the new job announcement. Good luck


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Bret Williams
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Feb 1, 2012 at 4:46:38 am

Nah, I can look back at FCP posts to see what days I was and wasn't working. :) Or at least when I shouldn't be billing!


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Patrick Simpson
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 10:23:21 pm

Thanks for the quick responses.

It's possible that someone had unchecked the dropped frames "Warn next time" box and it recently got re-enabled. And truth be told, dropping a frame here and there during playback probably isn't an issue because so far we're only exporting files, not outputting to tape. The filmmakers are just a little concerned at what appears to be a recent, new problem. And I'm curious if something did change since last week.

[Michael Gissing] "You can check your drives by running the free AJA or Decklink speed disk test software available from their websites."

I'll check it out.

What would Disk Warrior do? Does it free up space somehow?

[Michael Gissing] "Are the internal drives in a RAID configuration or just individual drives."

They are individual drives. I only recently came on the project.

Ok, I've done a little more digging and here's else I've gathered. The dropped frames only happen when moving to or from the timeline-native 2K footage to any kind of rendered footage (color corrected, rescaled 5D footage, or subtitles). If it's playing a section of only rendered clips, there are no dropped frames (where it's only going from rendered clip to rendered clip). So, it drops frames when going from a light-blue bar to gray bar on the timeline.

Could there be some issue with my Render Files folder?


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Richard Herd
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Jan 31, 2012 at 10:47:46 pm

Step back a sec, and consider how the machine is working.

In the settings, you tell it where the Capture Scratch is and where the render files need to go. Then you have footage on two drives, plus render files.

Imagine how it has to pull data from all those places!


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Bret Williams
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Feb 1, 2012 at 4:57:04 am

Another gotcha, do you have the waveform playing during playback? Turn that off. It makes no sense, but even with proves you can have problems playing back with the waveform on. Well, actually the bug is that when you turn on live waveform/vecotr, the timeline switches to saying that native footage needs to be rendered. Even if there's nothing to render. Turn off the waveform and the orange/red bar goes away.

But if you have anything 2k that isn't rendered, that means FCP is not only playing back a 2k file from a very full unaided drive, but you're also asking the processor to achieve rt effects on it at the same time? I wouldn't hold your breath. At this point, your drives are full. They're not raided. It plays back pretty well. Finish the thing, render it and export.


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John Whitehead
Re: Dropping frames w/ 2K footage on Mac Pro
on Feb 7, 2012 at 1:57:43 am

The footage Red 4K footage transcoded to ProRes 422 HQ at 2K; there is also some 5D footage transcoded to ProRes 422 HQ at 1080p.

So you are mixing two frame sizes in the timeline. Are they also different frame rates (Red @ 24 5D @ 30)?

What would Disk Warrior do? Does it free up space somehow?

The only thing that will free up space is deleting files, but if your files are fragmented that won't help you much until you completely erase the drives and copy media onto them again freshly (contiguously).

The dropped frames only happen when moving to or from the timeline-native 2K footage to any kind of rendered footage (color corrected, rescaled 5D footage, or subtitles).

How do you have your render options set? You may have them set inefficiently.

--
http://www.mediaflowdesign.com


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