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Audio playing "faster" than video FCP

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Kate Perkins
Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 6:34:14 pm

Hello All,

Having a sync problem that has eluded me for hours.

I am editing a film in FCP (7.0.3.) I have a final mix audio track that was exported from ProTools. The audio syncs up at first, and starts to unsync more and more as the video plays. It appears that the audio is playing "faster" than the video.

In FCP > Item Properties > Format, the video clips are TC 24. The audio clip is TC 30. My assumption is that this is the problem, but I'm not sure how to correct it.

It is not possible for me to get another export out of ProTools in time for my deadline. I don't own ProTools myself, but I have Soundtrack Pro, Cinema Tools, Compressor, Mpeg streamclip, etc.

SO:

Can the problem be fixed by simply transcoding the audio clip to 24 fps, and what is the best way to do that with the programs I have on hand?

Thank you very much!
-Kate


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 7:02:30 pm

Soundtrack Pro does have tools that should allow you to achieve the speed shift you require. It has Pull-down and pull-up features, as well as speed change functionality in the "Processing" section of its tools.

I would advise you to quickly bone up on the feature set of STP by searching the online manual for appropriate information inside STP and looking for tutorials on the Web, including Youtube. Key words are your best friends in this case.

PS - I wish I had the time to guide you through this step by step Kate... But, I know it's there and I know you can do it. Keep in mind that your video is most likely 23.976, not true 24fps, but you know the facts of what you've got better than I.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Kate Perkins
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 7:04:32 pm

Thank you David! Will give that a go.

You mentioned that the timecode is most likely 23.98 rather than 24. The settings in FCP say that it is indeed 24 - is there a better test than checking those settings to be sure?

Thank you,
-Kate


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 7:15:17 pm

Look in the browser at listed FPS info of your video clips to see what you can see there.

Sequence settings are adjustable, and mistakes can be made, thus potentially making what you see there incorrect. But, the clips themselves are right most of the time, so long as they were captured and/or imported properly.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Kate Perkins
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 8:46:32 pm

Alright, here is what I have tried so far (these have not worked.)

Tried using Soundtrack Pro - from my reading today, it seems that my best option is Process > Time Stretch, which is greyed out for this particular clip. I've not been able to figure out why that would be greyed out, or found another option in Soundtrack thus far.

I've also tried exporting only the audio from FCP using Quicktime Conversion (hoping to establish quickly whether I'm even right about the cause of this problem or not.) I exported to a 24 fps file, but there seems to be no difference in the audio rate, so perhaps the problem is actually not the time code mis-match. (?)

I also tried exporting audio only using mpeg streamclip with the same goal of exporting the file to 24 fps. Resulting file also does not seem to be in sync with the video.

Does CC have any other suggestions on what to try?
Many thanks,
-Kate


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 9:08:20 pm

Try the appropriate pull-up or pull-down feature Kate.

The bottom line is, unless you are much more specific, it's hard for anyone here to help, because we just don't have enough info.

It's always best to be as precise as possible, even using screen grabs, to show us precisely what you're dealing with.

For example:

Is your video true 24fps? Is it really 23.976? Was it captured properly? Was pull-down removed?

How about the problematic audio file? Is it in fact 30fps or actually 29.97? These things are very important, hard for us to determine, and not easy for you to interpret and deal with if you're doing it for the first time.

And finally, search this forum for posts by Matt Lyon such as the following: http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/1130775

Matt has often written about FCP time-stamping audio files with unexpected results. Find his original post on that subject and you may find an answer.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 10:51:54 pm

FCP timecode stamping is the usual culprit. Matt Lyon's tutorial gives info on how to import audio assets into FCP so that the stamped timecode matches exactly the sequence you are using.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/1150046

or http://library.creativecow.net/lyon_matt/fixing-fcp-assets/1


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Kate Perkins
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 11:40:17 pm

Good questions:

The footage was shot on film and scanned and digitized at Technicolor and PostWorks respectively, so for the moment I'm ruling out the option that the footage was incorrectly captured (though true that it's not impossible.)

When I bring the audio file into Cinema Tools, all of my telecine options are greyed out. I am familiar with reverse telecine in Cinema Tools, but this file does not appear to be in a format that Cinema Tools recognized (though it's in an .mov container and and apparently h.264 encoded - not sure why it's so heavily compressed right out of ProTools, but that's what I've got here.) Thoughts?

Below are links to screenshots of my video properties and audio properties. It does indeed say 30 fps for audio and 24 for picture:

http://i.imgur.com/YxTw1.png
http://i.imgur.com/13TFT.png

Read through that thread and will continue searching through Matt's posts - thank you for that resource.

-Kate


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 21, 2012 at 11:55:22 pm

[Kate Perkins] "It does indeed say 30 fps for audio and 24 for picture:"

No, your video is actually listed in your screen grab as 23.98, which is shorthand for 23.976, just as I've been saying. All very important stuff Kate, which has to be absolutely precise when reestablishing sync.

A few questions for you:

Where are you located?

Do you have enough dough to hire one of us as a consultant to get you over this hurdle?

Do you have a MobileMe account?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Kate Perkins
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 22, 2012 at 12:10:37 am

Damn, you're right - I may have been reading this wrong. I originally said 24 fps because of this reading I'm getting from another tab in the settings window. This must not be the same reading as the vid rate.

http://i.imgur.com/0AMGv.png

I'm currently in Dallas TX, visiting.

I am still trying my network of friends to get this figured out - I was truly hoping that Creative Cow would be able to diagnose this problem, um, without charging me but that is not out of the question if this is a difficult problem to diagnose.


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Kate Perkins
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 23, 2012 at 1:27:58 am

All I'm really trying to figure out here is how to transcode my audio from 30 fps to 23.98. That seems like it should be a simple task - does anyone know how to do that? Cinema tools is not recognizing my file, so I'll have to find another way.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Audio playing "faster" than video FCP
on Jan 23, 2012 at 1:48:10 am

Did the sound post people work at the same frame rate (ie 23.976)? If so then your drift problem is related to how you imported that audio asset. As Matt Lyon's tutorial points out, FCP stamps a frame rate on an audio file. This stamp is based on the default project in your easy setup.

Firstly delete the current audio file from your system. Secondly change your Easy Setup to exactly match your frame rate. Next recopy the sound file to your computer but make sure you change the name slightly as you import. This matters becasue FCP remembers the file by exact name and will automatically reapply the wrong frame rate. Now import your renamed file and see if it syncs.

If there is still slight drift then it might be pull up/ down that DRW was refering to. You can test this by changing the audio speed to 99.9% if the audio is slowly getting faster.


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