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5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97

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Maren Wickwire
5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 7, 2011 at 3:57:33 am

Hi!

I just shot the first time with 2 DSLRs an interview and was surprised when I got home that the 5d mark ii was on 23.98 instead of 29.97

I have a lot more interviews to shoot in the future where I will be more careful about the frame rate setting but my BIG question is: WHAT NOW.

I converted all the footage to apple pro res 422 (LT) but didn't discover until now that the frame rate was not equal on both cameras.
Would you convert the 5d footage up to 29.97 or the 7d footage down to 23.98

Also the audio drifting out of sync as I recorded the sound separately on a tascam. I tried to sync it with Plural eyes and it works in the first minute and than it starts drifting.


thanks for any advice!

Maren





AUDIO TASCAM
-----------------------------------
audio wav file
audio rate 48.0 Khz
audio format 24 bit integer

should I convert the 7d footage to 23.98 or the 5d footage to 29.97



canon 5d mark ii
-----------------------------------
23.98 frames/sec
1920 x 1080
data rate 5.6MB/sec

pixel aspect : square

audio 48KHZ
16-bit integer

and canon 7d
-----------------------------------
29.97 frames/second
1920 x1080

data rate
5.5 MB/sec

audio rate 48.0 Khz
audio format16 bit integer

-----------------------------------


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 7, 2011 at 5:52:23 pm

You might be looking at the wrong end of the workflow for an answer. What frame rate are you required to DELIVER? Start there.

Audio drifting when shooting dual-system sound for a DSLR has been discussed over and over and over and over in this forum. I'd bet a search will reveal the answer.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Maren Wickwire
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 7, 2011 at 6:07:11 pm

It is my choice, I can deliver whatever works best. I was planing to shoot 29.97 frames per second.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 7, 2011 at 6:13:31 pm

Then 29.97 it is. Compressor can do the frame rate conversion for you. I simply know that it's possible to do, I've never had to do it myself.

Again, it's a topic that has been discussed in this forum, and just within the last week. You can search for a thread where Shane Ross gave out advice on doing the conversion.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Maren Wickwire
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17:45 pm

thanks so much for your reply.

can i do it in mpeg streamclip?? and any idea why the audio is drifting??


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 7, 2011 at 6:24:47 pm

No idea about the drifting audio. But it is indeed a common problem, and there are several threads in this forum on the topic.

Perhaps MPEG Streamclip can do it, but I wouldn't count on it to do a great-looking job. You'll have better luck in Compressor... but it will take a long time.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Shane Ross
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 7, 2011 at 7:00:51 pm

23.98 to 29.97. Use Compressor.

In the ENCODER tab of the INSPECTOR, click on VIDEO:SETTINGS and change the frame rate to 29.97

Turn on the FRAME CONTROLS, and set to the following:
RESIZE FILTER: Best
Output Fields: Top First (if you want the footage to be interlaced...which is actually what you want to do. Making this progressive makes the footage skip. No worries, it still has the 24p look even though it is interlaced)
DEINTERLACE: Best (it's the default...just leave it)
RATE CONVERSION: FAST (Nearest Frame). Oddly enough, if you set this to BEST, it looks bad. FAST makes it look right.

LEave everything else alone.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Maren Wickwire
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 8, 2011 at 5:02:11 am

Thank you so much, this really helps.

What video setting would you choose? apple pro res 422 lt?


another BIG question i have: would you suggest shooting in 23.98 or 29.97 for future projects. I'm pretty new to HD and I have researched and know that 23.98 has a "film" look but I haven't found any BIG reasons that help me decide for ether side.

thanks for your thoughts on that topic


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 8, 2011 at 6:06:21 pm

There are a lot of factors other than frame rate that contribute to a film look; contrast range and depth of field are two that immediately come to mind. The difference in motion between 24p and 30p is pretty small.

I'd say it comes down to what you'll have to deliver.
If you'll need PAL & NTSC versions of the same thing, 23.976 would be a safer choice.
If you need 2+ hours of material on a single disc, 23.976 gives you 20% more time: there are 20% fewer frames than at 29.97.
If those considerations are irrelevant, stick with 29.97.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Maren Wickwire
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 8, 2011 at 6:18:29 pm

Thank you so much!


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Maren Wickwire
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 9, 2011 at 4:04:57 pm

Up till know I only new I had to deliver the final product for the web, but when I saw your post yesterday, I asked the people I'm working with if they are sure that they only want web and not DVD distribution. They were telling me yesterday that they actually need a DVD as well.

The final product is going to be used in China and America and they would like to have a DVD for both countries, means NTSC and PAL. (glad I figured that out before we really start shooting)

So I'll guess I stick to 23.98 as you ( Dave ) mentioned that this would be easier to convert in the post.

Would you shoot & edit everything in 23.97 and then export to PAL format in FCP?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 9, 2011 at 6:13:06 pm

The easiest way to get to PAL: Complete the program at 23.976. Export a self-contained quicktime movie of the completed program. Duplicate that file. Using Cinema tools, conform the duplicate to 25fps. It will be marginally longer, and the resulting pitch shift in audio will be virtually inaudible.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Maren Wickwire
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 27, 2011 at 8:12:59 pm

what would be the best way to convert 29.97 to 23.98?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 5d mark ii with 23.97 and 7d footage with 29.97
on Dec 27, 2011 at 10:15:53 pm

The BEST way? Take it to a production house, where you charged four figures for the job.

The way available to you right now? Do it in Compressor.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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