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emmanuel Presselin
demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 11:23:59 am

Hello,

I mainly edit HDV footage with FCP and export my films in HDV for screenings. It works great.
It's also possible to make blu-rays out of HDV files witout re-encoding. I do this by demuxing my HDV export file into mpeg2 and aiff files. I then import theses files into Encore.
I use DVD studio pro to demux my HDV files. The process is a bit long. Does somebody know another software to demux HDV ? Mpeg streamclip can't make it.

Thanks,
Emmanuel


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Rafael Amador
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 11:50:35 am

Try "ffmpgx".
It has an Demuxing option. Not sure if will work, you may need to change the file extensio (.mpg/.VOB?).
Free here:
http://www.ffmpegx.com/
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Chris Tompkins
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 11:58:10 am

Demuxing is the wrong term/process.

You should export your finished edit using "Current Settings"
The creates a QT master.

Take that file into your compression program:

Compressor
AME
Episode
Squeeze

to create the DVD compliant files (mpeg2)

You can import the mov file directly into DVDSP or Encore and let it convert the files, not the best though.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 12:03:03 pm

Sorry, I think I was not clear.

The aim is burning a blu ray without reencoding.
HDV is almost blu ray compliant. The only thing is to be able to demux the HDV stream into 2 elementary streams. Then I can author my blu ray in Encore, without reencoding, which means pristine quality.

My trouble is just about finding the most efficient tool to demux HDV on the mac.

Thanks
Emmanuel


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Chris Tompkins
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 12:07:48 pm

Export your finished edit using "Current Settings"

Drop that file into AME or Compressor and select the Bluray preset. This will make your mpeg files (audio and video) for bluray authoring.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 1:23:13 pm

Thanks, but that's not what I am looking for.

HDV is almost blu ray compliant.
It's 1440x1080@50i mpeg2, which is fully part of blu ray specs. So when working wit HDV material, there is no need to recompress with third part application. I have already made blu rays this way. No recompression means a significant gain of time and quality. The workflow is just to split the HDV stream into 2 elementary streams. These elementary streams are blu ray compliant, straight, which is the best method possible for HDV material.

The little drawback is that process of demuxing (splitting) the streams in HDV is not support by a lot of apps. That's why I'm looking for some user's experience.

Thank you
Emmanuel


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Peter Hall
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 2:10:59 pm

Chris, (pardon, Emmanuel) Is it better to convert HDV QT movies to mpeg2 via Compressor rather than to let iDVD or DVDSP do the encoding?

Peter Hall


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Chris Tompkins
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 2:29:08 pm

Yes, I believe so. It is better to use a compression program.

With that being said though, you can go into the DVDSP preferences and b/4 you import the media, set all your specs and settings for encoding to maximize the quality.

Importing QT's directly into DVDSP app is the easier way to go for those who don't want to mess with settings and details.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Peter Hall
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 3:39:46 pm

Thanks Chris.

Peter Hall


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eric pautsch
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 5, 2011 at 6:57:19 pm

If youve done this before why are you asking us? :) Youre demuxing HDV with DVDSP?? Your either mistaken or really really high :)

This is incorrect. HDV is not compliant. Not even almost complaint :) Encore will reencoding your file so why not encode correctly using Compressor to H.264 ?

Futhermore, 1440x1080 50i is only supported when encoded AVC or VC-1 only. I believe, since you know HDV is a H.262/MPEG-2 Part 2 based, its ready to drop into a BD authoring tool? This is not the case.

Here are the official specs



High Definition Video
1920x1080x59.94i(=29.97fps interlaced), 50i(=25fps interlaced) (16:9)
1920x1080x24p, 23.976p (16:9)
1440x1080x59.94i, 50i (16:9) AVC / VC-1 only
1440x1080x24p, 23.976p (16:9) AVC / VC-1 only
1280x720x59.94p, 50p (16:9)
1280x720x24p, 23.976p (16:9)
Standard Definition Video
720x480x59.94i (4:3/16:9)
720x576x50i (4:3/16:9)


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Rafael Amador
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 1:40:21 am

[eric pautsch] "since you know HDV is a H.262/MPEG-2 Part 2 based,"
HDV is plain MPG-2 LGOP/CBR 25Mbps, nothing related with H264.

[eric pautsch] "If youve done this before why are you asking us? :) Youre demuxing HDV with DVDSP?? Your either mistaken or really really high :)"
Hi is askink because this forum is to ask.
If he is wrong, you explain him why and you point him in the correct direction.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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eric pautsch
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 2:04:33 am

I said H.262/MPEG 2 not H.264

He wasnt asking, he was stating this was his workflow and I was pointing him in the right direction :) Sorry if I came off like an A hole



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Rafael Amador
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 9:28:29 am

[eric pautsch] "He wasnt asking, he was stating this was his workflow and I was pointing him in the right direction :) Sorry if I came off like an A hole"
Sorry Eric if the one that came as an A hole was my self:-)
The point is that what Emmanuel does, compliant or not, works.
Standard are standards but often there are ways to skip the constrains and what an application won't take another one can do it work. As long as you are able to print it in a disk, players shouldn't have much problems to play it.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 11:01:55 am

Hello again,

Well people have been a bit aggressive with me around this post.
First I'm french and my english may lack some nuances to be fully understood. I'm sorry about that.
Second, I might have more technical background than one could think. I'm not going to show references and diplomas, but please don't say I'm wrong without digging a bit the question...

Having said that,
HDV is very close to blu-ray specs. This is a fact, no controversy possible.
HDV is 1440x1080@50i (for instance) mpeg 2. It meets Blu-ray specs. The difference is that HDV is a transport stream. Is has to be demuxed to be uses in Encore. When demuxing is done you have a m2v file which is 100% BLU RAY COMPLIANT. Please trust me, I did it many times. When imported in Encore, with the correct preset, it is NOT re-encoded before burning. This method is used with many people. It's not coming out of the blue. And it also work with every HDV flavors. Please try.

Now my question was about demuxing.
And yes I use DVD studio pro to do this which can seem ridiculous.
Here is my workflow :
In DVD studio pro, sart a new HD DVD project. Import your HDV footage as is. Put it in a timeline. Right click in the timeline and choose export as mpeg file. DVD studio pro demuxes the file without re-encoding. I know this is not what DVD studio pro is intended for, but this is a good workaround.
Logically my question was : how to demux HDV without this workaround, I mean with the proper tool. My question was not : is it a correct workflow for blu ray burning.

This workflow should be a good news for people working with HDV and burning blu rays. It does save lot of time an quality.
It is straight out from FCP into Encore without transcoding. Just demuxing.
Please please please, before saying I am wrong. GIVE IT A TRY !

If you're still suspicious a a look at this thread :
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/284836-Basic-Guide-for-HDV-to-Blu-Ray
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1591736?start=0&tstart=0

See, I'm not the only one... Be open with new ideas !
Emmanuel


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Chris Tompkins
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 11:15:08 am

Did you try MPEG STREAMCLIP ?

http://www.squared5.com/

For the demuxing?

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 11:19:08 am

That the first tool I tried. It doesn't work. It's known that mpeg streamclip is not a good tool to handle HDV, unfortunately...


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Bouke Vahl
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 12:38:07 pm

Well, i don't trust the DVD SP workflow.
If it's slow, there is something going on like transcoding.
Demuxing must be a very fast process.
Rafael told you about FFmpegX, that would be a good bet.
I would use plain FFmpeg, and use a command line.
Very easy, just run ffmpeg -i infile -vcodec copy -an video.m2v for video,
and ffmeg -i infile -vn -acodec copy audio.xxx (no idea what your extension should be)

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Bouke Vahl
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 12:52:52 pm

Ok, spoke to soon.
I just ran a test, and it does indeed just demux, and indeed, slow.
Except from some header / footer information, the file is identical to an FFmpeg demux.

So, FFmpeg (or any front end app. like FFmpegX) will do the trick for you.

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 1:11:58 pm

Thank you for your help.
I have tried ffmpeg. It doesn't accept my HDV files.
I have GUI ffmpeg. I'm going to try again.
I f you have other ideas, let me know.

Emmanuel


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Rafael Amador
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 1:25:44 pm

I had no idea of the DVDSTP demuxing capabilities neither how to do that with FFmpeg (scared of terminal, command lines and that sort of things here here).
A very instructive thread indeed.

[emmanuel Presselin] "I have tried ffmpeg. It doesn't accept my HDV files."
Some times things works changing the file extension.
I've worked often with VCDS, which internal files are ".DAT" (text files?). QT open them just changing the extension to ".mpg".
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bouke Vahl
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 2:01:33 pm

What version of FFmpeg are you using, on what platform?
And, what is your commandline (do copy/paste...)

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 2:09:54 pm

I use ffmpeg 0.0.9y on mac with graphical user interface, so there's command line.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 2:21:04 pm

well, do toy with the command line, and get a static build.
It's really not difficult once you get the hang of it.

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 2:28:24 pm

Where can I find the command line version for mac ?
Any idea ?


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Bouke Vahl
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 6, 2011 at 2:34:27 pm

well, a google for ffmpeg binary mac gives you this:
ffmpegmac.net

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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eric pautsch
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 8, 2011 at 8:42:40 am

Im a little embarrassed since I author Blu-Ray discs for a living but I was unaware that 1440x1080 MPEG2 stream have been added to the spec. Good work!



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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 8, 2011 at 9:24:16 am

Yes it's part of blu-ray specs. And it can help us with mpeg-based footage, like HDV.
If someone come a cross a good tool to demux HDV streams so that we can use it straight for authoring, let us know ! that was the very first point of this message :)

Emmanuel


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eric pautsch
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 8, 2011 at 9:53:26 am

A better site to ask this question would be http://www.videohelp.com

I used:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TsRemux

and

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ProjectX


They worked fine


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Bouke Vahl
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 8, 2011 at 10:25:55 am

well, i've made a very simple FFmpeg front end (user interface)

Get it here:
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1278959790/6467658a42fca7a430276d587d680851

Unzip, do not remove the Xtras folder!
Run it, pick a file, it will be demuxed to filename.mpg and filename.aif, and it WILL overwrite existing files!
(so don't pick a .mpg file as input...)

hth,

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 8, 2011 at 10:41:21 am

Bouke, you're the man !!!
You are a mpeg wizard...

This app is gold !! Works like a charm. Fast and easy.
This app is the perfect tool. I''ve read so many posts desperately asking for a way to play and use HDV files from Final Cut on Windows app.

You should do something with this...

Beautiful.
Thanks
Emmanuel


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Bouke Vahl
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 8, 2011 at 11:44:52 am

well, i do something with this, it's my living :-)
(see my site..)

I do stuff like this also highly customized for specific questions, and normally i get paid for my work.
But this was so simple (about the command line i've wrote earlier) that writing the invoice would have been a major factor of the time involved...

If it works for you, great, keep it and use it!

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Nov 8, 2011 at 1:18:22 pm

Hello,
I visited your site.
Many tools that could have save me hours sometimes.

Just a suggestion about one point that has not been addressed properly and is a reel pain.
There is no good tool for downsizing and compressing HD interlaced footage (for instance for DVD output) on Mac. There is a lot of quality loss. It's a well-known issue on the mac, with FCP. You have to split the job. First round :downsizing to SD, second round : compression. That's long.
A compression tool that could handle properly interlaced HD footage would be very valuable !

Anyway you've made my day !
If there is anything I can do, just ask.
Emmanuel


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Alfred Guzzetti
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Apr 24, 2012 at 12:25:31 pm

Bouke,

Would you be willing to make this app available again? I too am trying to get HDV in its native form onto Blu-Ray.

Many thanks.

Alfred Guzzetti
Mac Pro Quad 2.66GHz 4GB RAM
Intensity Pro card
OS 10.6.8
FCP 6.0.5
DVDSP 4.2.1


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Alfred Guzzetti
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Jun 12, 2013 at 3:50:51 pm

I finally bought Encore and tried the workflow suggested by Emmanuel Presselin and the demuxer posted by Bouke Vahl. It all worked: a BD from HDV without transcoding!

The demuxer requires Flash Player 11, and the current version, 12.5, won't run on OS 10.7.5. Fortunately, I keep OS 10.6.8 on another startup disk, did the demuxing there, and went back to 10.7.5 for import into Encore.

Many, many thanks!

Alfred Guzzetti
Mac Pro Quad 2.66GHz 4GB RAM
Intensity Pro card
OS 10.7.5
Media Composer 6.5.2
Sorenson Squeeze 8.1
Final Cut Pro 6.0.6
Compressor 4
DVDSP 4.2.1


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Alfred Guzzetti
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Apr 23, 2012 at 11:45:03 pm

I just came across your helpful message. I've been trying for a while to get HDV onto a Blu-Ray without re-encoding. As you suggested, I extracted the mpeg via DVDSP. I brought this into Toast 11 Pro and instructed it to "never reencode." But Toast essentially rejected the file and wouldn't burn a disk. Any ideas?

Alfred Guzzetti
Mac Pro Quad 2.66GHz 4GB RAM
Intensity Pro card
OS 10.6.8
FCP 6.0.5
DVDSP 4.2.1


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Apr 24, 2012 at 8:11:34 am

Hello,

If you can, use Adobe Encore to author and burn your Blu Ray. It works for me. I never tried Toast.
Ask "Bouke" if you can use his little app to demux. It works like a charm and it's much faster than Encore.

Emmanuel


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Bouke Vahl
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Apr 25, 2012 at 10:23:12 am

it's here for a week or two.

Link to file:
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1479900297/53d3a2e0deeb83e58dd103325ec53294

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Alfred Guzzetti
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Apr 25, 2012 at 10:32:56 pm

Bouke,

Many thanks for this incredibly useful software. It worked very smoothly.

Emannuel,

Would you be willing to describe your workflow in detail? I didn't have success with it, either by demuxing with Bouke's app or from within DVDSP. Here's what I did:

- I exported the HDV sequence as a self-contained QT file at current settings. The "get info" command in the finder shows this as 1920x1080. QT player displays the aspect ratio pretty correctly, and the Movie Inspector shows the dimensions as 1440x1080.

- After demuxing with Bouke's app, I get an mpeg file and an aif file, as I expect. The "get info" command for the mpeg shows 1440x1080. When opened in QT, the aspect ratio looks correct, but the Movie Inspector lists the dimensions at 1440x810. "Movie Properties" for the mpeg file lists a video track and a sound track (!), which I hear when playing back in QT Player (in other words, it's not an elementary stream).

- When I drag the mpeg into Toast 11 Pro, I see the video and sound listed. I set Toast to "never re-encode" and it gives up after a few seconds or starts re-encoding.

So, no success. I'd be interested to hear about your workflow and hear any ideas you might have about what I'm doing wrong. I know that you use Encore rather than Toast, but I suspect the problems I'm having would be the same with Encore, since Encore wants elementary streams.

Many thanks.

Alfred Guzzetti
Mac Pro Quad 2.66GHz 4GB RAM
Intensity Pro card
OS 10.6.8
FCP 6.0.5
DVDSP 4.2.1


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Apr 26, 2012 at 12:02:00 pm

Hi Alfred,

Here is my workflow :
1 : export from FCP. Same settings as your project, self-contained.
2 : demux with bouke's smart app. You get 2 files, ready to use in Encore.
3 : blu-ray authoring with adobe encore. Set the prefs in premiere to match your movie properties. Then Encore won't re-encode your elementary streams. Encore tells you wether your streams need to be re-encoded or not in the project pane. Make sure you get the "don't transcode" status in the project pane.

"- I exported the HDV sequence as a self-contained QT file at current settings. The "get info" command in the finder shows this as 1920x1080. QT player displays the aspect ratio pretty correctly, and the Movie Inspector shows the dimensions as 1440x1080."

This is OK. HDV is anamorphic 1440 x 1080. Only 1440x1080 pixels are recorded. When displayed, your movie is scaled to the 1920x1080 size. (or sometimes 1440*810 which respects the PAR as well).
Don't worry about this. Just make sure your file 1440x1080, whatever the display does.


"Movie Properties" for the mpeg file lists a video track and a sound track (!), which I hear when playing back in QT Player (in other words, it's not an elementary stream).
That's the normal behavior. When you have 2 elementary streams with the same name, they are read in sync. It means if you open the video stream, the audio is read in sync at the same time.

- When I drag the mpeg into Toast 11 Pro, I see the video and sound listed. I set Toast to "never re-encode" and it gives up after a few seconds or starts re-encoding.

I don't use toast. No Idea.

Good luck !
Emmanuel


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Alfred Guzzetti
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Apr 27, 2012 at 1:53:00 pm

Emannuel,

This is really helpful. Thank you so much. When the latest version of Adobe CS comes out next month, I'll buy it and try your method.

Best wishes,

Alfred Guzzetti
Mac Pro Quad 2.66GHz 4GB RAM
Intensity Pro card
OS 10.6.8
FCP 6.0.5
DVDSP 4.2.1


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emmanuel Presselin
Re: demuxing HDV files captured with FCP (for blu-ray)
on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:15:58 am

Hello,

You could try with a demo version. I think (not sure) you can download Encore trial from adobe's site.
Bye,
Emmanuel


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