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Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated

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Glenn Camhi
Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Oct 30, 2011 at 10:10:40 pm

When I import a QuickTime movie into Toast Titanium 11 for Blu-ray burning, it looks too bright and slightly desaturated in Toast, and the Blu-rays it burns have these same shifts.

I've tried exporting the QuickTime movies from Final Cut Pro both with "Gamma Correction" set to Auto and None, but neither method solved the problem in Toast.

I've also tried both importing the movie files directly to Toast, and encoding them first in Compressor. No change there, either.

Might there be something obvious I'm missing? These shifts don't happen when I burn DVDs via DVD Studio Pro.

The QT files are ProRes 4444, if that matters.

Thank you!


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Oct 30, 2011 at 10:15:01 pm

Don't encode using Toast, instead use Compressor, then import those files into Toast for burning only to BluRay.

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Brad Wright
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Oct 30, 2011 at 10:18:44 pm

Test your workflow. I've found Toast to really mess up the H.264 encoding, and I would recommend Apple Compressor for H.264 encoding as it produces cleaner results. One way to test your work flow is to create a set up Color Bars and test patterns. Run that through your workflow and test. If you aren't getting what you want, make some changes.

Blu-ray H.264 is 8 bit Ycbcr color space and 4:2:0 color sampling. You probably don't want to use ProRes 4:4:4 and instead should use ProRes 4:2:2. Make sure you don't have ProRes applying a gamma to your video. Import the video back into FCP and check the footage on an external monitor after you export it.

Brad Wright is software engineer, so often hard to figure out what he is talking about. He is always happy to explain answers further.


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John Pale
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Oct 30, 2011 at 10:18:57 pm

You may be causing a levels freak out indirectly by using ProRes 4444 which can get confused as to whether you are working with RGB or YUV material under some circumstances.

Are you sure you need ProRes 4444? Unless you are working with very high end source material, probably not.

Try with HQ or plain old 422.


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Glenn Camhi
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Oct 30, 2011 at 10:44:59 pm

Thanks, all. As I mentioned in my first post, I did try encoding in Compressor as well, to no avail.

But given what you've all said, perhaps I need to adjust the settings in Compressor. By which I mean, maybe Toast is overriding the "Never" reencode option, because it can't handle the settings of the h.264 file that came out of Compressor? Is that plausible?

John: Thanks, that's interesting. The source material is indeed PR4444, from an Alexa.


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John Pale
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Oct 31, 2011 at 2:58:01 am

[Glenn Camhi] "The source material is indeed PR4444, from an Alexa."

As a test, try transcoding to ProResHQ and see if your situation changes. Use a rewritable disc, if possible.


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Glenn Camhi
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Oct 31, 2011 at 4:50:05 am

Thanks, will do, John. Running a few other tests too, will report back.


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Chris Babbitt
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Oct 31, 2011 at 3:00:24 pm

Glenn,

If Toast is overriding the "Never Re-Encode" option, it will tell you so. Otherwise, it will just say that it is Muxing. Why don't you try MPEG2 instead of H.264? That's what I use, and to my tired old eyes, it looks pretty good.



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Glenn Camhi
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Nov 1, 2011 at 2:49:59 am

Thanks, right, it's not reencoding.

After several tests at various bit rates, I've found that encoding in Compressor looks worse overall than encoding in Toast, in that it introduces new flaws. (At least for ProRes4444 going to H.264.) Among the flaws that Compressor introduced:

- blockier/aliased thin and diagonal hard lines
- some slight but odd color shifts
- a rainbow (moire?) pattern that appears in a thin black fence that does not appear when I encode in Compressor (see below)
- white text on a colored background gets some slight dark "shadows" on one side, not unlike when you over-sharpen or reduce the size of an image. (Same text looks pretty clean when encoded via Toast.)

Maybe there's some other setting I'm getting wrong? FWIW, one color/post house said they also get better results sending QT files directly to Toast rather than encoding in Compressor first when making test Blu-rays. Since some of you experts here have the opposite experience, could it possibly depend on what the source material is?

Anyway, more tests to do....



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Chris Borjis
Re: Blu-rays burned by Toast Titanium 11 too bright & slightly desaturated
on Nov 2, 2011 at 10:12:09 pm

try encoding with the mpeg2 codec.

I could use h.264 but never have.

Mpeg2 has never failed me. I use compressor or adobe media encoder and always get great looking discs that look the same as the original source.



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