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ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D

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Tom Adams
ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 2:44:22 pm

Im just getting used to the whole log & transfer world and have a few questions that I couldn't find with a search of this forum:

1) Is ProRes 422 the only option to convert to from canon's 60D h264 files. The Pro Res files are almost quadruple the size of the files that the canon 60D records onto the card. (ie. a 4minclip= 1.54GB canon h264 vs 4.85GB proress file. that seems extra huge for a 4min clip.

2) I downloaded the canon log & transfer fcp pluginfrom canon's website but am not sure if I have the best version (or maybe the download didn't properly activate the plugin installation?) becasue I don't see the preview window with all the in/out options that are in the wonderful tutorial that I watched here on creativecow.

I'm working with FCP 6.0.6
ok, thanks for any insight you can give.

Regards,

Tom Adams - Director/Owner
Reelife Documentary Productions
"cool digital video stuff...not boring or dumb"
http://www.reelifeproductions.com
Williamsburg, MA, USA

http://www.FolktographybyTom.com
Folktography.zenfolio.com

MacPro
FCP studio2
4TB Firewire Drives
Panasonic DVX100a & EZ1


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Dave LaRonde
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 3:10:23 pm

[Tom Adams] "Is ProRes 422 the only option to convert to from canon's 60D h264 files."

No, it isn't: there are ProRes HQ and 10-Bit Uncompressed, but if you're complaining about file sizes, these sizes would be astounding to you. Furthermore, they're largely unnecessary unless you need to render, then render the result again, and so on for more than 10 generations or so.

There are also ProRes LT and ProRes Proxy, but the images don't hold up if you intend to do any color correction or color grading; they may not even work at all for those uses. They do, however, have the virtue of smaller file sizes.

ProRes 422 file sizes are much smaller than HQ and 10-bit uncompressed. They may be larger than LT or Proxy, but the image can withstand SIX generations of rerendering with no perceived image degradation.

So ProRes 422 isn't the only option. It's just the best option.

I can't speak about the Canon software. I don't use it.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Steve Eisen
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 3:18:09 pm

Keep in mind if you want to use ProRes LT, you will need to upgrade to FCP 7.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Tom Adams
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 3:26:10 pm

Thanks Dave...
good info.

when you say "So ProRes 422 isn't the only option. It's just the best option." ...that's not really true because it depends on the intended use. Since I won't be doing any color correction and it's a real basic edit...I could get away with a much smaller file sies, like LT and Proxy (which, means I'll need to actually open up that new fcp version 7 that is sitting on my hard drive :) - good to know, btw, Steve, thanks).

I think I'll be using mpeg streamclip instead of the log & transfer processs because I don't need all that high res stuff - just basic, nice looking HD will be just fine for me...

Plus the log & transfer conversion time is really bogging things down. It's actually taking longer than if I was to injest the tape like the good/bad ole days...

I'm gonna need ten new hard drives at this rate :(...

thanks for your info, greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Tom Adams - Director/Owner
Reelife Documentary Productions
"cool digital video stuff...not boring or dumb"
http://www.reelifeproductions.com
Williamsburg, MA, USA

http://www.FolktographybyTom.com
Folktography.zenfolio.com

MacPro
FCP studio2
4TB Firewire Drives
Panasonic DVX100a & EZ1


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Dave LaRonde
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 3:33:59 pm

[Tom Adams] "'ll be using mpeg streamclip instead of the log & transfer processs because I don't need all that high res stuff - just basic, nice looking HD will be just fine for me..."

It sounds as if you may misunderstand the type of image coming out of that DSLR; it's 1920x1080, which is most certainly HD, and not any bigger than that.

As to the codec: if you're certain --I mean, REALLY certain, no ifs, ands, or buts, no mind-changing allowed -- that this video won't be color-corrected or repurposed for some other reason, then ProRes LT should be just fine for you.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tom Adams
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 3:43:34 pm

Thanks Dave.

"It sounds as if you may misunderstand the type of image coming out of that DSLR; it's 1920x1080, which is most certainly HD, and not any bigger than that."

Nope don't misunderstand the size of the image coming out of the camera and the "HDness" of it all but... just surprised that the size of the Canon h264 file that gets recorded onto the sd card basically gets quadrupled when it gets converted to prores422. and I don't need it to be "that good".

thanks for the help though. getting it all sorted out.

Regards,

Tom Adams - Director/Owner
Reelife Documentary Productions
"cool digital video stuff...not boring or dumb"
http://www.reelifeproductions.com
Williamsburg, MA, USA

http://www.FolktographybyTom.com
Folktography.zenfolio.com

MacPro
FCP studio2
4TB Firewire Drives
Panasonic DVX100a & EZ1


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Dave LaRonde
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 3:53:31 pm

[Tom Adams] "just surprised that the size of the Canon h264 file that gets recorded onto the sd card basically gets quadrupled when it gets converted to prores422"

That's because that H.264 codec is barely sufficient only as an ACQUISITION codec. It throws away a LOT of the image quality the sensor in your camera can make. You say you want to edit? H.264 is an unacceptable editing codec in FCP for a variety of reasons one of which happens to be that it's extremely lossy.

There's a thread in the FCP X forum entitled, "I guess it's So Long and Thanks for all the Fish!" that you might find interesting. It's very long, but about halfway down the thread, some editors discuss the virtues and the shortcomings of shooting video on a DSLR.

And while it's on my mind, if you do indeed upgrade to FCP 7, know that the only guaranteed-painless method of upgrading is to do a clean install. Much has been written about doing clean installs in this forum, and you ought to be able to find the procedure.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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John Pale
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 3:59:45 pm

If time and file size are most important to you, you might want to look at FCPX, as it works with Canon H264 natively...no transcode needed. You'll have to learn a whole new way of working and live with it's quirks and limitations, but depending on the type of editing you do, it could work nicely for you.


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Tom Adams
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Sep 7, 2011 at 4:05:13 pm

John, ahah. very good to know indeed. it might just be time to make the plunge. I'm going to hold my nose as I jump! thanks
-t

Regards,

Tom Adams - Director/Owner
Reelife Documentary Productions
"cool digital video stuff...not boring or dumb"
http://www.reelifeproductions.com
Williamsburg, MA, USA

http://www.FolktographybyTom.com
Folktography.zenfolio.com

MacPro
FCP studio2
4TB Firewire Drives
Panasonic DVX100a & EZ1


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Scott Young
Re: ProRes422 file size / converting from Canon 60D
on Mar 7, 2014 at 3:09:25 am

I'm converting 60D files as well. I just use Streamclip to convert them to ProRes files.


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