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Tom Galli
Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 7, 2011 at 3:54:54 pm

Well, Apple has done it to me again. Another undesired forced upgrade.

I am replacing 4 older computers in my lab, the last of my Power PC G5s. And, of course, the new machines are shipping with Lion. I don't want Lion, and called Apple to see if there was any way I could get Snow Leopard machines, but to no avail.

Since it's an educational facility, consistency and uniformity between machines is critical, so I'll be upgrading the whole lab to Lion.

But there's no budget for migration to FCP X at this time.

So, from what I've read elsewhere on the web, FCP 6 will run under Lion, but cannot be installed under Lion because the installer program is Power PC compatible.

On the bulk of the machines, this should be a non-issue, as they'll be getting upgraded to Lion and already have the software installed. On the 4 new machines, I'm hoping that I can use the Migration Assistant to move FCP onto them. Anyone had luck doing this?

And, more importantly, does anyone have experience running FCS2 under Lion? Can I expect reliable performance for the next year?

Mahalo!
Tom G

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 7, 2011 at 4:58:41 pm

[Tom Galli] "I'm hoping that I can use the Migration Assistant to move FCP onto them. Anyone had luck doing this?"
Migration Assistant doesn't works for this.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 7, 2011 at 5:16:27 pm

I don't quite understand your predicament. Install Snow leopard on newly purchased machines and FCS2 and live happily ever after.

Sony PMW-EX3, Canon Mark II 5D, FCS3 in Moscow
http://www.mokaeff.com


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Tom Galli
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 4:49:34 am

Over the years, I have tried several times to downgrade Apple machines. Never once (yet) have I found a case where I could put an older OS on a new machine. If that works this time, I will be MOST thankful! But over a decade of cursing Apple and their forced upgrades tells me that I should not get my hopes up.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.


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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 10:16:12 am

You tend to overestimate the mightiness of Apple: With clean install you are totally free to choose any OS given you're aware of some limitations. In theory, if you have Intel-based mac you can move backward into the past as far as Tiger. No big deal.

Sony PMW-EX3, Canon Mark II 5D, FCS3 in Moscow
http://www.mokaeff.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 12:42:41 pm

Right.
You just need SL and overwrite Lion.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Matthew Celia
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 12:40:58 am

Actually, that is not true. The earliest version of the operating system you can place on most machines is the version that shipped with it. Otherwise it will Kernel panic upon boot up.


----------------
FCP Guru
http://www.fcpguru.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 9:24:38 am

[Matthew Celia] "Actually, that is not true. The earliest version of the operating system you can place on most machines is the version that shipped with it. Otherwise it will Kernel panic upon boot up."
My last MBP (2010) came with SL installed.
I installed Leopard on top. No problems.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Andrew Golden
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 2:14:52 pm

[Rafael Amador] "[Matthew Celia] "Actually, that is not true. The earliest version of the operating system you can place on most machines is the version that shipped with it. Otherwise it will Kernel panic upon boot up."
My last MBP (2010) came with SL installed.
I installed Leopard on top. No problems.
rafael"


Actually, the minimum and maximum OS you can put on a Mac is not what it shipped with but what the specific model ID originally shipped with. For instance, a MBP with a Machine ID of 5,3 originally shipped in June 2009 with 10.5.7 but sold through April 2010 with Snow Leopard installed on all machines after August 2009 when Snow Leopard came out. However, even if it came pre-installed with Snow Leopard, that specific model still supports Leopard. However, a MBP with a Machine ID of 6,2 (which is what replaced models with ID 5,3) should not be able to run Leopard since that model series never shipped with Leopard.

There's a wonderful app for PC's, Mac's, and the iPhone/iPad, called Mactracker: http://www.mactracker.ca/
It's a wonderful utility that can tell you the minimum and maximum OS you can install on any Mac in history.

If someone has been able to load an OS earlier than the one originally shipped with the first production run of a specific model, I would be interested in hearing about that since technically it should not work and every time I've tried to do something like that, it's failed. This situation was prominent in 2003 with the last release of the Power Mac G4 MDD systems which would NOT run OS 9.2.2 when all previous G4's could. Since the particular model, PowerMac 3,6 never shipped with OS 9.2.2, and only OS X 10.2, you could not back-rev them - which caused major problems in the NLE Systems Integrator world back then.

Andrew S. Golden
Director of VCA Services
Video Corporation of America
7 Veronica Avenue
Somerset, NJ 08875
http://www.vca.com


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Tom Galli
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 11, 2011 at 1:44:02 am

Ok, a new iMac that shipped with Lion cannot be downgraded to SL. It will not boot from a retail SL disc. As a target drive, it will refuse to be erased by a SL computer. This isn't internet wisdom, this is me having tried it.

However, Migration Assistant DID move everything, including FCS2, to the new machine. And FCS2 launched! I'll do a little editing on it over the next couple of days, see what I get in the way of stability.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.


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Andrew Golden
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 11, 2011 at 2:09:45 am

Just because I'm a technician at heart and am very curious.

What Machine ID is your computer? (you can find this by running Apple System Profiler)

What revision snow leopard disk were you using? (ie. 10.6.0 or 10.6.4 etc.)

What I am trying to see is if, let's say, the specific iMac model originally shipped with OS X 10.6.7 but the disk you used was using 10.6.0 or 10.6.4 etc. In that case, they are both snow leopard versions BUT you could only boot with a snow leopard disk that had 10.6.7 or later but not with the older revision snow leopard disk. Depending on the machine ID, you can have a computer that shipped with 10.6.7 and can for sure run snow leopard, but you would never be able to boot from a snow leopard disk with an earlier version like 10.6.0 or 10.6.4.

I'm curious if your machine really can't be updated or just can't boot from the older snow leopard disk you may have used. Knowing the Machine ID should be able to answer that question better.

Andrew

Andrew S. Golden
Director of VCA Services
Video Corporation of America
7 Veronica Avenue
Somerset, NJ 08875
http://www.vca.com


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Tom Galli
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 12, 2011 at 12:15:46 am

The machine is model iMac12,1
The retail Snow Leopard disc is version 10.6.3, which I find odd since I bought it just a couple of weeks ago.

There's a theory that if I could find a reinstall disk from an iMac that has the same hardware but shipped with SL that I could use that disc to successfully downgrade. I spoke at length at Apple tech support, and while they would not confirm that it would work, they cheerfully sold me a reinstall disk for $16. It should be here sometime before the 21st, as USPS was the only shipping option they had.

I'll report back as soon as that comes to pass.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.


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Tom Galli
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 23, 2011 at 1:23:19 am

Ok, my reinstall disk, 10.6.7, came over the weekend. So far, the results are promising.

If I stick the disk in and click the "Install OS X" icon, it doesn't work. Of course. But if I restart the machine while holding C, it boots from the disk. It allows me to repartition, erase, and install. Then I use Migration Assistant to install the software and accounts from a backup drive.

With a little luck, I'll have all 4 machines rebuilt by tomorrow evening. Time will tell if they are stable or not.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.


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Tom Galli
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Aug 26, 2011 at 7:17:40 pm

After a week, nothing has exploded. I've not had a chance to really push the machines, but they've been in rotation in the lab, and so far, I've not heard any complaints. One of them is being weird about connecting with other machines to share files, I need to investigate that.

In two weeks, I'll start teaching FCP using one of them as the demo machine. That will be the smoke test, at least from my perspective.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.


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Matt OConnor
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Dec 30, 2011 at 1:53:09 am

That started to get annoying until the last two posts. I'm wanting to upgrade to a new iMac and keep FCS(2). How'd it all end up ? Any issues surface, or would you recommend the way in which you migrated ?? All the best for the new year.

Matt


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Tom Galli
Re: Lion & Studio 2?
on Dec 31, 2011 at 12:29:12 am

Well, at present, I am still running OS 10.6.x. I've not made the move to Lion.

However, FS2 on 10.6.8, installed by using the Migration Assistant from a master disk, definitely demonstrates a little more personality than it did running on OS 10.5.x under the same conditions.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.


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