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FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML

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Devin Terpstra
FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 9:24:20 pm

Editing a project in FCP 7 and we now need a Blu-Ray Disc. I've exported the XML from FCP and opened it in Premiere CS 5. Everything seems to work except the 3-way color Corrector isn't even close, my footage is blown out. Does the 3-way Color Corrector not translate in the XML or is there something else I'm missing? I know I could re-color everything but I'm hoping there is another work around. I've never really used Premiere before but Steve Jobs is forcing me to learn. The footage is ProRes (LT) 1080i. I've posted this in the Premiere form, but thought I'd try this one as well.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 9:28:15 pm

3-Way Color Corrector is an Effect in FCP, and not found in Premiere, which has its own color correction effects. You're talking about two competing software developers, y'know...

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 9:43:23 pm

Thanks for the response Dave, and I'm very aware of the software developers are not the best of friends. The last month of trying to make BR Discs has made this painfully obvious. But, when I'm in Premiere the 3way shows up in the "Effects control" pane, with adjustments already made but with some weird numbers that don't match FCP. Premiere's manual says it will take them.

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/premierepro/cs/using/WSd9957a95a81082eb28f05af5...

Just trying to find out if the right way is to Color Correct in FCP and find a work around in XML or to do it in Premiere which would be a PITA.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 9:51:09 pm

Sorry, I'm not seeing the link for some reason.

Well, if Premiere says it can do it, that's great: I didn't know it could, and I'm surprised it would.

Perhaps Premiere has to be installed on the same machine with FCP or something. Perhaps the Premiere project has to be set up in a certain way to make 3-Way work properly.

In any case, this is a question for the Premiere folks, I learned something new today, and good luck: I hope you get it to work. Please do report back with the results.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 9:55:23 pm

The link was from their manual and has a conversion sheet telling you what FCP Effects turn into once in Premiere, like Dip To Color is changed to Dip to Black. Just got a response from a Premiere guy who said CS5.5 is much better at this. May have to see If I can find a buddy who has upgraded.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:02:45 pm

Adobe seems to share something in common with Apple: in its zeal to get new products to market, sometimes new features don't work as advertised.
Heck, After Effects 5.0 couldn't deal with AIFF files when first released. Can you believe that? Stinkin' AIFF's, for cryin' out loud.

However, Adobe does NOT and has never shared one very important trait with Apple: Adobe doesn't cut its current customers off at the knees.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:06:41 pm

Yeah, I get ya there. I'll hold my FCPX screaming til this fall and see how many of the Apple promises come true once the are selling a product and not a beta. Just noticed you're in Iowa, I grew up north of Pella.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:12:35 pm

With a name like Terpstra, I'm not at all surprised by your connection to Pella. Go Tulip Festival!

I should probably ask this as well: is an XML even necessary? I've been hearing that Premiere Pro opens FCP project files. Not too shabby, eh?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:21:18 pm

That sounds cool about opening the project in Premiere, but not sure that will fix my Color Corrector Issue.



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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:08:53 pm

You can download a fully functional 5.5 version which is much better. But a warning to all you "switchers" - the color tools is PPro, especially their 3-way and Fast correctors, are horrible and easily the worst of any NLE out there. If you're really gonna try to do pro work in PPro you'll want Colorista II and Looks 2 and forget about the Adobe stuff.

Lance Bachelder
Southern California



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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 11:11:56 pm

Thanks for the 3rd party CC Idea. So Colorista in FCP will act the same in Premiere via XML?



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 11:34:26 pm

Test test test. You would have to check and see, make sure to test those secondaries.

Colorista II has free a trial:


http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-colorista-II/comp...


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 11:42:27 pm

Thanks for the Link. Secondaries? Damn I'm never gonna leave the office now. Jeremy, Didn't mean to come down hard on you for the Ref Movie Idea. I don't post here often, but I read of ton of posts and yours usually are the ones I try out first.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 7, 2011 at 12:22:27 am

[Devin Terpstra] "Jeremy, Didn't mean to come down hard on you for the Ref Movie Idea. I don't post here often, but I read of ton of posts and yours usually are the ones I try out first."

All good, Devin, just trying to help. There are many ways to do it. I can't tell you what will work the best but I'll suggest something that can't hurt to try

A ref file is small. A self contained is big. A render and a self contained is hooj (aka huge).

Ref files ( along with FCP render files) are temporary. Self containeds are more permanent.

If you export a ref after rendering in FCP, then encode for BluRay, you could trash the render and ref files, but I have no idea if that will fit your requirements. If you ever needed to go back to that ref file and the renders have been trashed, that ref file is invalid, and you'd have to reexport, from FCP.

You would have to figure out what works for you and your needs.

If you want no renders and no self contained, then finding a plug in that will translate might be "best". At some point, you are going to have to bake that color correction in, so it's up to you to determine where it might be best.

Jeremy


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John Pale
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:04:11 pm

Unless you are also re-editing in Premiere, why bother with XML?

Just export a QuickTime of your timeline (with your corrections "baked" in ) and import that into Adobe Media Encoder/Encore to do your Bluray authoring.


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:15:38 pm

Really John, that's the easy way out. Just kidding, our issue is work flow. Any given week we may produce over 50 finished DVD (1-2 Hours each) since we are an event production company. I'd really would like to not have to export out of FCP and take those files into Premiere. I understand that method would work, but that would effectively double our file size on the raid. I know it may come to that though. Ideally, I'd like to leave Premiere out of it all together and encode H.264 for BR in Compressor and use those files in Encore, but we are have tons of Chapter Marker issues with that method.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:23:03 pm

You could export a ref file. Or start using a color corrector that is compatible with both systems.

Ymmv, though.

Jeremy


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:42:40 pm

I've never been a fan of Ref files, but if I have a 3way CC on all the clips, won't that create file the same size as a non-Ref file?



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:54:30 pm

Not if you render first. Export a ref, and encode for BluRay.

I think testing another cc plugin (such as Colorista that has been mentioned) might work better for you, but testing will determine.


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 11:05:39 pm

If I render the timeline first, haven't I just created a render file of the same size. I guess that's what has always bugged me about reference files, if you use any filters, then you might as will make it self contained. Now if you can get me some shooters who don't need a little help with filters I'd be set.

I do like the Colorista idea.



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John Pale
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 10:28:54 pm

I am no expert in PPro, but I just imported an XML into 5.5 and the color correction was screwed up.

Your mileage may vary.


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Devin Terpstra
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 11:08:18 pm

I had a Adobe rep tell me on the premiere forum that 5.5 is better, not right though. But hey, he was honest, got to give him props for that.



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Dave LaRonde
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 6, 2011 at 11:21:03 pm

[Devin Terpstra] "I had a Adobe rep tell me on the premiere forum that 5.5 is better, not right though."

Todd Kopriva's a good man, in charge of Premiere and After Effects customer service. I came to know him when he was in charge of Premiere and AE documentation.

You will note that with Adobe, you can communicate with a real human being employed by the software developer who knows the applications. Try that on the Apple Apps Store or whatever they call it.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Craig Alan
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 7, 2011 at 12:25:35 am

What's wrong with output to blue ray? http://www.rippletraining.com/provideoapps.html

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Michael Gissing
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 7, 2011 at 12:49:04 am

Try exporting to Color which does a better interpret of the FCP 3WayCC. In Color you can then tweak and do a better final grade.

Export from Color as an XML and open in PP. The grade is baked into the new rendered Color clips that you will be opening in PP but it has been properly graded. The 3WayCC in FCP is a toy compared to Color.

I doubt if you will get a satisfactory grade even with a better translation. You will still need to tweak so why not a 'do it once do it right grade' through Color?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP 3-Way Color Corrector In Premier VIa XML
on Jul 7, 2011 at 12:54:14 am

Good point, Michael.

Although I find the 3 way to Color translation horrible. Might as well skip the 3way and save the time, and start fresh in Color if deciding that route.


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