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How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?

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Justin Ford
How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 7:16:07 pm

I should know this, but I can't find any advice on it anywhere.

What if a program was hours long and spread across numerous media drives? How would you get the full sequence exported?

Example: We just got a new Mac Pro with 4 HDD bays. One is for the system, second for system backup, and the other two for media. But what if we had a project that was spread over 5 drives?

Thanks so much.

Justin Ford


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Dave LaRonde
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 8:54:36 pm

Sounds like it's time to get an external RAID for your media on a fast connection, like eSATA.
You can set it up for hundreds of terabytes, and there will be even faster connections VERY soon.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Shane Ross
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 9:03:50 pm

Then you need to get an external enclosure that will allow you to mount all 5 drives. They are all bare SATA drives? Something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111139&nm_mc=OTC-F...

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 9:49:47 pm

File > Export > QuickTime Movie.

Check self contained and choose a destination.


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 10:05:01 pm

Thanks for the responses.

I don't really want to buy a RAID. I don't need the speed and don't have it in the budget. There has to be another way to do this. What about "Planet Earth"? They probably have DAYS worth of footage.

I guess I could just export what I can of the sequence and then sync that file with other exported sections of the sequence. That must be what you mean Jeremy.

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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Shane Ross
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 10:15:42 pm

[Justin Ford] "There has to be another way to do this. What about "Planet Earth"? They probably have DAYS worth of footage."

They no doubt had a HUGE RAID. That was a big budget project.

That item I linked only costs $129. That way you can get all the drives to mount. Otherwise, export the doc in sections to a single drive using the tip Jeremy gave you, then join them all for the final export.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 10:28:50 pm

I'm cornfused, Justin.

You need to export your sequence or online your sequence?


[Justin Ford] "What if a program was hours long and spread across numerous media drives? How would you get the full sequence exported?"

How do you edit without all the media?


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 2:59:00 pm

Both. I don't really mean online in the sense of online/offline production. We work with our native full quality footage. I need it all to be "online" aka mounted in order to export the whole thing.

I just need more drive connections I guess, but I don't want to have to set up a RAID. Will one of the enclosures like the one that Shane linked to simply act as a drive multiplier instead of a RAID?

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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Dave LaRonde
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 3:26:14 pm

[Justin Ford] "I just need more drive connections I guess, but I don't want to have to set up a RAID."

If you can't access all your media on your current drives, the answer is simple: you need more storage, not more connections. The way to do that is to set up a RAID.




[Justin Ford] "Will one of the enclosures like the one that Shane linked to simply act as a drive multiplier instead of a RAID?"

The enclosure mentions by Shane was for a RAID. Are you spotting a trend?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Ben Holmes
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 3:30:08 pm

Forgive me, Justin, but are you suggesting you have been importing media into a project, then disconnecting a drive, connecting another one, and importing more media - and so on?

That's bonafide crazy. As others have said here, bare RAID enclosures cost very little, and will solve all your problems - or just buy a big, single firewire drive (4Tb, or even 2Tb for around $150) and transfer ALL your media to the single drive and re-link it.

And in answer to your question about 'Planet Earth', yes they had a big disk array. And they worked in individual episodes, each with it's own media. If you can split your own project into sections, maybe you can keep working on your separate drives, but if you're doing this in any kind of professional capacity, and can't spring for a cheap RAID, I'd quit now...

Edit Out Ltd
----------------------------
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/community/communitydetails/?UserStoryId=87...


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 3:40:59 pm

Yes, Dave, I need more connections for the storage I already have (don't need any more). I have more hard drives than I do connections. Thus the original problem of exporting the entire project. I don't want a RAID.

I have discovered that these enclosures support something called JBOD.

Problem solved.

I still might just do it in sections to save the money.

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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Shane Ross
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 4:39:26 pm

[Justin Ford] " Will one of the enclosures like the one that Shane linked to simply act as a drive multiplier instead of a RAID?"

What I linked to is a simple enclosure to put all the drives in so that you can get them all to mount at the same time.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Rafael Amador
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 4:53:35 pm

[Justin Ford] " How would you get the full sequence exported?"
As Jeremy points: Export a self contained QT movie.

If you wan't to "consolidate" the media included in your sequences (wherever is located), use Media Manager.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 6:17:17 pm

Thanks, Shane. I learned that JBOD is the setting I am looking for.

Rafael, I've never used consolidate, but I understand the idea. I didn't think of that. I could possibly consolidate the media from offline drives onto an online drive if it didn't take up too much space. I could even put handles on it.

Thanks.

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 6:25:37 pm

[Justin Ford] "I've never used consolidate, but I understand the idea."

No, you evidently don't Justin. That's an altogether different Media Manager function that's primarily used for archiving after the complete edit is finished.

Copy or Move are the two functions you should be looking at (preferably Copy as it's non-destructive).

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 6:32:29 pm

What kind of drives are these 5 drives the media is on and how much footage is on each?


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 8:28:56 pm

David:

I've never tried to consolidate before, but you're right, I think move and copy are what I was thinking of, which are used for consolidating.

"You can use the Move option in the Media Manager to consolidate all of your project’s media files" - user manual

What other function are you referring to? I don't see a consolidate option, so I wasn't even correct in referencing it.

What I might be wrong about is thinking I can use this tool to save just media in the sequence (pieces of master) with handles to another drive. This could help me get all the media I need mounted at the same time. Yes/no?

Jeremy:

They are 1TB internal Seagates full of ProRes files.

I see three potential options:

1) Work in sections and combine exported sequences.
2) Get an external enclosure.
3) Possibly "consolidate" the media only needed for the sequence.

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 8:51:56 pm

So do you swap the internal drives when you need to
edit different parts of the sequence?

How many drives are outside of your computer?


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 10:15:15 pm

Jeremy:

Correct. Two of the four bays are dedicated to media. The first is system, second is system back up. We have simply had a project go beyond needing only two hard drives.

I need to look more into the consolidating option.

Thanks.

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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Shane Ross
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 10:20:24 pm

I tell ya...that enclosure I linked to allows you to put in ALL the drives, and have them show up on your computer, and FCP. You can have all of your drives on line at the same time.

Not a RAID, but JBOD...they show up separately.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Rafael Amador
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 10:32:37 pm

[Shane Ross] "You can have all of your drives on line at the same time. "
Right. As long as no one of them was set as Scratch Disk, no problems.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 10:35:33 pm

That's probably the route I'll take. It's not expensive I know, but just more money :( It will serve me well in the future I'm sure.

If I am going to invest in an enclosure though, I might as well make the best buy I can. Looking into some USB 3.0 options. Thunderbolt out soon from Lacie maybe? Speed isn't necessarily an issue for me now as I've stated not needing a RAID, but transfer speeds are a plus.

If you know of any fair priced ones let me know.

Thanks so much!

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 11:18:31 pm

[Justin Ford] "Speed isn't necessarily an issue for me now as I've stated not needing a RAID, but transfer speeds are a plus."

Speed (better discussed as throughput) is always an issue for every editor using FCP or any NLE, and anyone who says it's not, and that they don't need a RAID, just doesn't know enough to know why they need a RAID.

Not putting you down Justin, but after reading this ongoing thread almost all day long, it's clear that you need to sit down sometime with someone who knows more about these things than yourself, and have the whole video storage thing explained in detail.

Meanwhile, I'm interested to hear what reasons you think may or may not qualify you as some who has no need for a RAID?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 11:36:06 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Speed (better discussed as throughput) is always an issue for every editor using FCP or any NLE"

iMovie is an NLE right? How many iMovie "editors" do you know that use a RAID?

I have no render time. Simple edits. No multicam. No processor intensive codec. I don't need a RAID. I simply don't need fast "throughput" sir.

Not putting you down.

I know what a RAID is and I don't need one.

Thanks.

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 11:40:13 pm

[Justin Ford] "I have no render time. Simple edits. No multicam. No processor intensive codec. I don't need a RAID. I simply don't need fast "throughput" sir."

Okay! You passed the test. I'll give you an A for that answer. :)

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 9, 2011 at 11:51:16 pm

Id stay away from usb3. Stick with sata. Thunderbolt sure, but your mac doesn't have it.

If you want to keep oing it the way you're doing, I don't see why you don't get two 3TB drives, shove those in your Mac.

Get a cheap bare hard drive enclosure and transfer your media from each drive to the new 6TB you have.


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 10, 2011 at 12:03:03 am

Jeremy:

Not sure why, but I trust your advice on sticking with SATA. Probably won't see a thunderbolt card for quite a while. Caldigit (my fav) has a SATA III card out with USB 3.0 as well.

But why not just use the enclosure along internal drives? It's SATA II, which Apple is still currently using, and that would solve the everything online problem. What's the benefit of getting the 3TB drives?

Sorry if long threads annoy people :)

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 10, 2011 at 12:34:19 am

[Justin Ford] "But why not just use the enclosure along internal drives? It's SATA II, which Apple is still currently using, and that would solve the everything online problem. What's the benefit of getting the 3TB drives?"

You could. Just trying to save you some money. A single enclosure is super cheap. The benefit of 3TB is more space, which you seem to be out of.


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 10, 2011 at 12:39:31 am

Gotcha.

Thanks!

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 10, 2011 at 12:20:47 am

[Justin Ford] "iMovie is an NLE right? How many iMovie "editors" do you know that use a RAID?"
iMovie is basic editing tool, not a pro NLE:
No TC control, no media managing, no RT options, always rendering, fix codecs,..
Overkilling a RAID for iMovie, I think.



[Justin Ford] "I have no render time. Simple edits. No multicam. No processor intensive codec. I don't need a RAID. I simply don't need fast "throughput" sir."
Then, unless you are working with 10b Uncompressed or heavier stuff, FW-800 should be OK.
Just don't export or set the Render Folder in the media HDs and don't use more than a HD per FW Bus.

As soon as you need a bit more of speed, the next option would be a FW-800 RAID; then eSATA.
I love eSATA.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Justin Ford
Re: How Can I Online If I Can't Mount All My Media?
on Jun 10, 2011 at 12:37:43 am

Thanks, Rafael. That's informative about the 10-bit uncompressed. Nowhere near that. Would shoot for a SATA III if I could via PCIe for the Mac.

Trying to make a point with iMovie. Things are changing quick.

Very interested in why not to export or render to media drives though. I haven't heard that before.

Thanks!

Justin Ford
http://www.KnaveProduction.com


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