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ProRes Proxy and digitized material

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David Lewis
ProRes Proxy and digitized material
on May 23, 2011 at 8:37:04 am

I'm editing a project on FCP7 with a lot of material originally shot in AVCHD that has been "Log and Transferred" into my project in Apple ProRes 422.

The material is now close to 2TB and I'm not done yet. I want to copy all the material (mostly interviews) into ProRes Proxy, edit the hour and a half documentary and then re-link to the higher quality ProRes 422 clips.

I've searched the posts here and I see it shouldn't be a problem. I simply need to copy or originally transfer my material into the system from AVCHD at "apple prores Proxy".


Questions:


1) Since I've already created the Apple ProRes 422 high quality clips, can I just "export" or copy them as Proxy files?

2) Do I need to relabel them so there will be no confusion between what file I'm actual going to edit from and the original files?

3) I still have a lot of archive material I need to digitize from tape... mostly DV quality. I want to digitize the material in at the best quality it will afford. Can I then copy/export THESE files as Proxy and re-link to the original digitized hi-quality clips?

Thanks for your advice.

David C. Lewis
Editor- Director
DCL Video Productions


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Everest Mokaeff
Re: ProRes Proxy and digitized material
on May 23, 2011 at 1:53:29 pm

1. No. You can't since HQ clips are per se opposite to anything we call proxy. This is original media.
2. No. If you did you'd end up relinking all media files that went off-line. I can't give you fool-proof advice given the fact that I know next to nothing about particulars of your project.
3. Yes. You can capture DV footage as ProRes Proxy Clip (you need to have aja or black magic installed) then recapture clips used in edit as HQ ProRes footage.

Anyways, don't mess with resolution and/or frame-rate. Proxy means light bandwidth, i.e. bit-rate, all the rest is exactly the same. Otherwise you'll get yourself into a storm of s--t.

Free-lance fcp editor in Moscow
http://www.mokaeff.com


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Shane Ross
Re: ProRes Proxy and digitized material
on May 23, 2011 at 1:59:11 pm

1. Yes. I have a tutorial that covers that here.

http://library.creativecow.net/ross_shane/tapeless_online/1

Mind you, what's the point if you already ingested the files? You are worried about the amount of space the full res clips are taking, yet you want to keep them and then take up MORE space by making Proxy quality files? At this point, why not just edit the full quality clips?

2. NO! Do not rename. Just take the full res ones offline and work with the offline quality ones.

3. Do you have a capture card? If not, then capturing as DV is as good as they get.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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David Lewis
Re: ProRes Proxy and digitized material
on May 24, 2011 at 6:25:12 am

To both Shane and Everest:

Thank you both for setting me straight via the ProRes Proxy issue.
I can certainly easily re-ingest all the interview material from it's origianl AVCHD format as Proxy files.

The story is that I am editing on two different machines. A powerful (6TB) Mac Tower at my client's office and a Mac Book Pro portable with a 2TB drive connected to it at my home studio.

I had posted earlier checking how to do this and I understand that if I make an exact copy the media files between the two hard drives I can simply copy the FCP Project file and "bounce" between machines (one in my home and one at my client's studio) and edit.

The actual edit hasn't started, but we have accumulated a majority of the interviews (all on AVCHD files from a Panasonic camera). The amount of interview material as Apple Pro Res seems to be getting heavy.

Shane you are right... if I wasn't going to edit at home on my Mac Book Pro, I probably wouldn't worry about size and going to Proxy. Yet I am about to digitize in DV material ( I have an AJA Kona card) for the project and am very scared I will not be able to easily edit on my home machine if I have all this heavy Pro Res quality material.

Another issue I have to deal with is frame size! Apparently, since the archive material, and past episodes of this doco series were shot in 4:3, the client wants to have the final edit in 4:3. I'm not quite sure how to do that.

It was suggested that I simply transcode all my HD interview into SD (16:9), set a NEW project with SD 4:3 settings and crop the interview material into the native archive material(4:3) frame.

If this isn't right... let me know how dumb an idea it is...no ego here... I am in a realm I am unsure of... I do most of my work in AVID ( I edited 3 of these epiosdes that way until the client decided he wanted to switch everything to Apple and PCP)and am working inf FCP for only the second time.

I more than just appreciate your input and suggestions.... it will make my edit on this project go so much smoother, I'm sure.

David C. Lewis
Editor- Director
DCL Video Productions


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Shane Ross
Re: ProRes Proxy and digitized material
on May 24, 2011 at 6:46:09 am

Editing offline/online with mixed media will be pretty darn complex. Not a task easily tackled with FCP. Offline/online isn't isn't strong suit. Expecially mixed HD and SD. I suggest capturing the SD as HD...upconvert right away. Then make those Proxy if you must, and relink later. I have an article/tutorial here on how to do that with the Kona card...the upconvert.

[David Lewis] "Yet I am about to digitize in DV material ( I have an AJA Kona card) for the project and am very scared I will not be able to easily edit on my home machine if I have all this heavy Pro Res quality material."

I edit ProRes with my laptop all the time. Just use a Firewire 800 drive and I'm fine.

[David Lewis] "Another issue I have to deal with is frame size! Apparently, since the archive material, and past episodes of this doco series were shot in 4:3, the client wants to have the final edit in 4:3. I'm not quite sure how to do that."

Then the client is telling you they want to edit in SD. Because there is no such thing as 4:3 in HD land. I have worked with SD in HD in many ways...pillarboxing, blowing up and cropping, and layering so there is fuzzy areas on the side that are the footage (what CNN will do). But, if the client wants 4:3, inform them they are limited to SD resolutions then.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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David Lewis
Re: ProRes Proxy and digitized material
on May 24, 2011 at 10:53:37 am

Hi Shane:

You're right.. I don't want to edit off/on line material in the same sequence. Due to the space I'm trying to save with my portable drive, I think I'll simply re-ingest the interview material as Proxy files... I just did a test and I see that one clip that weighed 5.29GB as the HD Apple ProRes 422 file, weighed in at 1.59GB as a proxy. Overall that's a great savings for me in dealing with close to 2 TB of material!

As to the SD and HD issue... 100% correct, thanks. I know that there is a SD screen size of 16:9, but it isn't HD and there is no HD 4:3. I still have to debate this issue with the client.

I will take your advice and upconvert the DV material into HD. Where can I see your tutorial. BTW, am I able to make these files in Proxy files? If so, I misunderstood something I thought you wrote earlier. That would be great if I could.

Another thing with the AVCHD file... they were filmed at different times by different cameramen. I have a lot of repeat file names of things like "Clip 1"..."Clip 2" etc. for different interviews. Now in the FCP project I keep them in indivdually labeled bins for each person interviewed. At this stage, since I'm going to re ingest everything again as Proxy (and then I can later re-ingest as full ProRes 422 for the on-line version), can I relabel the master AVCHD clips? I'd like to give them unique clip names at the very start.

Once again, I thank you for your assistance and advice. You've already helped me a great deal.

David C. Lewis
Editor- Director
DCL Video Productions


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Shane Ross
Re: ProRes Proxy and digitized material
on May 24, 2011 at 8:19:47 pm

[David Lewis] "At this stage, since I'm going to re ingest everything again as Proxy (and then I can later re-ingest as full ProRes 422 for the on-line version), can I relabel the master AVCHD clips? I'd like to give them unique clip names at the very start."

Name them as you import them. So that they won't appear as CLIP #1 and so on in the Capture Scratch folder. FCP will remember the original card name and clip name...as long as you follow my workflow to a T:

http://library.creativecow.net/ross_shane/tapeless-workflow_fcp-7/1

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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