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Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID

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Mark Laslo
Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 12:20:02 pm

Hi all,

I'm looking to get an external RAID and I've seen a lot of previous conversations here about the viability of editing off of a gigabit based RAID ranging from no chance to it works fine. Currently I'm looking at a system that our IT department uses from Buffalo that is an 8 TB RAID with only a gigabit and USB connection. We would set this up most likely in RAID 5 unless there is a reason not to (performance issues?)

Otherwise I will look to eSATA, my only concern is it is slightly more expensive and I also will need to buy an eSATA controller or use it via firewire800 which my understanding is significantly slower than eSATA.

I appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,

Mark


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 12:47:15 pm

Pardon my candor, but that Buffulo unit is a piece of crap that's designed for general office use, not for sustained throughput as required for video editing. You might be able to sucessfully edit very limited DV or HDV, but honestly, wouldn't everybody be using cheap, off the shelf USB or network attached storage if it were that easy?

There is a reason that CalDigit, Dulce, Maxx Digital, Stardom, and others advertise here, and there are good reasons why editors buy and use their RAID storage systems. If you want the performance and security of a RAID, you'll have to spend some money to acquire it.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Michael Kammes
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 12:49:53 pm

Danger Danger Danger!

Never use Gigabet Ethernet storage solution for editing unless it's a VIDEO NAS. General NAS solutions don't cut the mustard, usually because of sustained throughout. This is also why USB is bad for editing. Will it work? It's a crapshoot. Read the STORAGE forum on the 'cow to see. Does the NAS manufacturer say they support HD video editing?

I can't recommend enough to stay away from any USB 2.0 editing solutions, and any network based editing solution without the manufacturer specifically saying it's qualified to edit with FCP and with a decent stream count.

Go eSata (or, on the lesser end, Firewire). How many drives do you tend to throw at the Firewire800 or eSata solution? eSata won't be that fast if you throw 1 drive at it....and this goes hand in hand with the type of footage you're working with...what codecs are you editing? If you're working with HDV, for example, Firewire 800 is plenty. Uncompressed? Well then, yes, you will need a RAID with many drives and an eSata or better connection.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammes

Hear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .


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Doug Beal
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 1:09:10 pm

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/281/193

Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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Mark Laslo
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 1:20:40 pm

Thank you all for the heads up.

Right now the product I am looking at is http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/624484-REG/LaCie_301435U_8TB_4big_Qua... via eSATA.

I typically edit in 720p 60 ProRes 422. The enclosure from Lacie is a 4 drive 8 TB RAID 0, 3, 5 option. I'm thinking of working in RAID 5.

Unfortunately budget is limited as we are a non-profit so I am trying to get the most bang for my buck. I am glad for the warnings about gigabit and the Buffalo throughput issues. Right now I am really trying to find a decently priced eSATA card as it seems crazy to me to spend $150+ to give myself a SATA port outside of my computer.

Does anybody know if http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/481960-REG/Sonnet_TSATAII_E2P_Tempo_S... will work with that laCie drive?

Also would something like this http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20Technology/MPQXES2/ be an option?

Thanks,

Mark


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Michael Kammes
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 1:38:52 pm

I recommend getting the eSATA card from the same company who makes the Array - that way, you KNOW it will work, and if there are issues, you only have ONE company's throat to choke.

LaCie makes an eSata card. I'd go with that.

Sonnet is very good as well, but for me, it would introduce other variables into the mix that I would not want to troubleshoot at 1am when I have a project I need to get out.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammes

Hear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .


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Victor Perez
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 3:29:27 pm

on one of my systems I have a 5 drive raid from OWC connected to eSata via a Cal Digit Fasta 2E card in a Raid 5 config. It has been rock solid for over 3 years editing footage from P2, DVCPro, XDCam, HDV, & DV.
The drive also has Firewire 800, but I have never used the 800 port for editing.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-drives/RAID/Desktop/

hope that helps

Victor
http://www.editvictor.com
http://www.hbhm.tv
http://www.itvisus.com


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Steve Eisen
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 4:00:21 pm

[Victor Perez] "I have a 5 drive raid from OWC"

The Qx2 is a 4 drive RAID. I have 2 of them. I use the FirmTek SeriTek/2ME4-E.
Write Speed 148.6 mb/s
Read 183.4 mb/s

I originally had the Caldigit FASTA-2e.
Write Speed 95.2 mb/s
Read 115.9 mb/s

As you can see, not all esata cards and RAID enclosures are created equal.

Time is money and if it cost a little more, I will spend it.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group


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Victor Perez
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 4:53:12 pm

Oops! Yes 4 drive raid. I also have 2 of them. An 8TB for editing and a 4TB for temp backup of finished media managed projects before I take the media entirely off the system. Will look into the FirmTek SeriTek/2ME4-E card.
Thanks

Victor
http://www.editvictor.com
http://www.hbhm.tv
http://www.itvisus.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 3:37:32 pm

[Mark Laslo] " Right now I am really trying to find a decently priced eSATA card as it seems crazy to me to spend $150+ to give myself a SATA port outside of my computer. "

Mark,

Your statement above shows that you don't have a complete appreciation of the subject you're delving into. RAID 5 and RAID 6 protected modes are all about security, and the controller is not just the connector you're imagining that goes between the computer and the hard drives; the controller is in fact the heart of the protected system.

Protected RAID modes that operate via software, as in the cheap cards you're looking at, even the one for $150, simply do not work reliably, so the entire purpose for setting up your RAID 5 (i.e. security) will be negated if you go in that direction. Hardware protected RAIDs are the only ones that provide real security, and without a hardware RAID you'd be far better off just setting up a simple RAID 0 and doing manual backups.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Bret Williams
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 12, 2011 at 5:19:26 pm

Yup. I use a graid and the basic $50 sonnet tempo card. Gives the standard 120mb/sec. Get better cards and you can pull 200mb, if you need it. But you can also run a true proper raid.

The graid hooked up via fw 800 works well too. Gives about 80mb/sec.

I don't put anything on there that couldn't be replaced. Media mostly. Maybe AE renders. Clients have copies of the media, and I can rerender the AE stuff. If you just need an esata connection, the sonnet $50 (tempo I think) is solid.

Recently, I've also edited some projects right off if lacie rugged drives provided by the client. I'm usually editing P2, XDCam EX, etc in a pro res seq. Often 720 30p or 1080i. Editing off those drives still gave rt functionality, no dropped frames, and generally the same experience as editing off the graid. I even had one of the drives hooked up FW400 for awhile due to lack of available ports.

Sustained playback isn't always that big of an issue for many. Unless you have to play back to tape output. Which I haven't done in years. It's all files and DVD/BluRay output.


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Mark Laslo
Re: Gigabit RAID vs eSATA RAID
on May 13, 2011 at 1:01:57 pm

David,

Thank you for your information. My understanding was that the RAID was being controlled by the LaCie enclosure and that it would handle doing all of the RAID options. According to the specs on the device it supports RAID 0, 3, 5, 10. The tech at B&H also said it should work fine. Is he incorrect?

Thanks for the information, I'm a techie but RAID is a whole new field for me.

Thanks,

Mark


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