FORUMS: list search recent posts

SD footage miserable on HD television

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Sean Kirchman
SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 1:58:52 am

Hi everyone,

I'm at my wits end with a personal project of mine, and I'm up against a hard deadline. Hopefully I'm doing something stupid, and one of you great people can point it out. When I finish my DVD and watch on my lcd tv, I get a large amount of boxy pixels, stair stepping, and just general bad quality footage.

I shot a project a few years ago on 16mm film. Got the transfer back on DVCPro 50, and imported into final cut. I don't remember what the import settings were because it was so long ago and I was very green. Anyway, my sequence settings were DV50 during the edit, frame size 720x480 (3:2), Pixel aspect NTSC - CCIR 601/DV, field dominance none. I changed the compression to uncompressed 10-bit when I was ready to export. Into compressor, I exported using 16:9 and a crop to 1:66, which was our shooting aspect, and put into DVD Studio. No problems.

When I watch on the made DVD (both on my Cinema Display and on my 1080p hdtv), I notice all the issues listed above. Now, I know its standard def on an hdtv, but I've edited standard projects that looked just find widescreen on my tv. Could it be because its 3:2 and not anamorphic in final cut? I didn't check the box because it makes the footage look quite warped. I'm trying not to jump to any conclusions, because I've done many tests to no avail, and it could be any number of things at this point.

Other possibly useful details:
-Final cut pro 6, compressor 3
-I've tried things such as Instant HD. No luck.

Let me know if you need any more details to provide an answer. If I forgot any its most likely because I'm bashing my head in with a hammer (joking...kinda?). Thanks so much everyone.


Return to posts index

Sean Kirchman
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 2:15:04 am

I also wanted to add a bit more about the workflow that might hopefully provide more clarity:

1. Final cut sequence>export to compressor
2. CBR at 7.0. MPEG-2 compression, aspect ratio 16:9, cropped to 1:66. I should point out that I did a test with a 4:3 ratio/dvd, and the stair stepping, hard and disgusting edges remained (even the main characters hair looked like an old SNES game!)
3. Into DVDSP, into a widescreen track. Build the DVD to a folder.
4. Burn the VideoTS folder with Toast.

Not sure if the above is relevant, but I'm trying to be the least vague possible.


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 2:24:50 am

[Sean Kirchman] "3. Into DVDSP, into a widescreen track. Build the DVD to a folder.
4. Burn the VideoTS folder with Toast."


Working backwards,I wouldn't leave DVDSP and burn with Toast as it may be re-encoding everything which will add heaps of blockiness. Try burning in DVDSP for starters.


Return to posts index


David Roth Weiss
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 2:29:20 am

[Michael Gissing] "I wouldn't leave DVDSP and burn with Toast as it may be re-encoding everything which will add heaps of blockiness. Try burning in DVDSP for starters.
"


I agree 100%.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


Return to posts index

Sean Kirchman
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 3:12:30 am

That's interesting wisdom. I've read tutorials on the opposite, but I suppose the evidence and opinion doesn't concur. I'll change that.

I just did some tests burning right in DVDSP. It didn't fix the problem though. These are the tests I did.

1. The sequence I had before to see if burning in DVDSP would work better.
2. With anamorphic checked regardless of how it looks in FCP, and burned with a widescreen setting in DVDSP.
3. Original sequence, set to top first dominance in compressor.
4. Original sequence, set to bottom first dominance in compressor.
5. Original sequence, with a deinterlace filter in FCP.

I'm not sure what the problem is, so I'm kinda throwing everything I have at it. While nothing fixed it completely, I seemed to have the best luck with the de-interlace filter. Not great, but a tad better. Its amazing how some shots look great, and others have edges that look like a mountaintop. I'm starting to run out of test ideas at this point.

Any thoughts?


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 3:12:45 am

[David Roth Weiss] "I agree 100%."

Now I'm worried :)


Return to posts index


Sean Kirchman
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 3:31:10 am

I've attached an image of an example of the issue, played in dvd player on my Apple Display. So not only is it bad on my HD tv, but pretty much every time its fullscreen. Hopefully a visual will help.

My edit rig:

Mac Pro (2007 version)
Leopard 10.5.8
Quad Core Intel Xeon, 10GB ram
ATI Radeon X1900 Graphics Card


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 3:31:03 am

[Sean Kirchman] "2. CBR at 7.0. MPEG-2 compression, aspect ratio 16:9, cropped to 1:66. I should point out that I did a test with a 4:3 ratio/dvd, and the stair stepping, hard and disgusting edges remained (even the main characters hair looked like an old SNES game!) "

THIS. What is this? Are you cropping in compressor? DVDs are 720x480. So if you're taking your 4:3 720x480 output from FCP, then cropping out some middle portion, then that middle portion is getting blown up to the full 480 height, and yeah, lots of pixels are being doubled. Especially if you were working in a progressive seqeunce that should've been interlaced. Which is likely. Especially with a film transfer to DV50 tape, which is interlaced.


Return to posts index

Sean Kirchman
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 3:51:17 am

[Bret Williams] "So if you're taking your 4:3 720x480 output from FCP, then cropping out some middle portion, then that middle portion is getting blown up to the full 480 height, and yeah, lots of pixels are being doubled"

Yeah, that does make sense. However, that 1:66 cropping has been a recent development. I originally just exported to compressor, and put into a widescreen track in DVDSP. Even still, I had the quality issues. To further that point, I did that 4:3 test, which had absolutely no cropping or setting change in compressor, and I had the same quality issues. What would you suggest to fix it?

My edit rig:

Mac Pro (2007 version)
Leopard 10.5.8
Quad Core Intel Xeon, 10GB ram
ATI Radeon X1900 Graphics Card


Return to posts index


Sean Kirchman
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 12, 2011 at 4:22:01 am

Slight update.

I followed the advice and created a sequence with a de-interlacer, compressed in 16:9 with no crop. Its not perfect, but it definitely helped. I'm trying not to get overly critical, since I am used to digital HD footage, and SD originally 16mm not so much.

My edit rig:

Mac Pro (2007 version)
Leopard 10.5.8
Quad Core Intel Xeon, 10GB ram
ATI Radeon X1900 Graphics Card


Return to posts index

Jim Nelson
Re: SD footage miserable on HD television
on May 14, 2011 at 5:11:44 pm

[Anyway, my sequence settings were DV50 during the edit, frame size 720x480 (3:2), Pixel aspect NTSC - CCIR 601/DV, field dominance none.]

Perhaps you might try setting your field dominance to "lower".....this may help with your interlacing issues.

Jim

Mac Pro Dual Quad 10GB Memory


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]