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Very strange Pulldown pattern

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Rik Flynn
Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 29, 2011 at 7:17:54 pm

Hi folks.

I have some 16mm film footage that was telecined to NTSC DV. I am trying to remove the pulldown on it, but it appears to be a very strange pattern/cadence. It goes like this W W S S S. or in other language it is a 2:3:3:2 pattern. Of course I may be starting at the wrong place, because the timecode might be wrong, so it could be any variation of WSSSW or SSSWW, SSWWS, SWWSS.

I have tried cinema tools but the reverse telecine fails. If I use nattress, or another plugin, there is no option for patterns with three split frames, only 2. Also, in After Effects it is the same problem.

Please can any of you suggest how to get this footage back to 24p? I have tried deinterlacing but motion estimation isn't producing a good result and I can't stomache throwing out half of the fields.

Many many thanks.
Rik


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Rik Flynn
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 29, 2011 at 7:47:05 pm

So I just managed to get cinema tools to complete a reverse telecine, but it throws out an interlaced frame every 4 frames and the two frames either side of the interlaced one looks very faintly interlaced also.

I am at wits end. There must be a way to separate these fields in FinalCut and then recompose the 24p?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 29, 2011 at 10:39:47 pm

Are you sure the film wasn't scanned at 29.97, which would result in an interlaced picture, but with no pulldown added?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rik Flynn
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 30, 2011 at 7:22:46 am

No I'm not sure. How can I be sure?


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Michael Gossen
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 30, 2011 at 12:17:09 am

Isn't that the 24pA cadence? Can you remove pulldown in AE in interpret footage dialog by clicking guess 24pA pulldown?

Michael Gossen
Helium Digital Media


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Bret Williams
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 30, 2011 at 7:09:03 am

2332 is the 24pA cadence, but what he is describing is not 2332. 2332 is WWSWW and 2323 is WWSSW. The only pattern that matches what he is describing is WSSSW or when you map it out, has to be 3:2:2:3.

1 1 2 3 4
1 2 3 4 4
W S S S W
3 2 2 3


Perhaps it is 2332 but created with the wrong field dominance? Ouch. Brain hurts.


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Rik Flynn
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 30, 2011 at 7:26:42 am

I have tried the 24pA interpretation in AE but to no good result. I thought at the start that perhaps it was 2:3:3:2 with messed up field dominance, which literally it makes sense that it is, but I couldn't get it to work out. The field dominance is definitely Lower.
Thank for your responses.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 30, 2011 at 9:15:13 am

I strongly believe you have a one field offset.
This is not the same as wrong field dominance!

You could put it in AE with a frame rate intepretation of double the original, this way each field becomes a frame.
Put that file with a one frame (thus, one field in the original) into a 29.97 timeline, and the problem 'should' be solved.

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Rik Flynn
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 30, 2011 at 1:06:21 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. But could you though just explain it to me a bit more? Do I separate fields? How do I remove the first frame, or (original field) and then recompose?

Many regards,
Rik


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 30, 2011 at 1:11:35 pm

In AE, if you interpret the footage as 59.94, AE will see each field as a 'frame'. (flag as interlaced also of course....)
So you then can create a comp and trim off one field.
Now use that comp as input for a 29.97 timeline, and AE will merge it all back as it was, leaving you with a proper cadance you can remove.

Just dive into AE and toy around, you'll see.

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Rik Flynn
Re: Very strange Pulldown pattern
on Apr 30, 2011 at 9:00:31 pm

You are a genius! It worked.
Thanks


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