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video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24

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Jason Watkins
video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 4:00:21 pm

Okay, this is a crazy one. I have video at 23.98 and an audio LTC track at true 24 from a ProTools Session. In the end, I need a window burn of that true 24 frame timecode over the video. Problem is, when choosing the tc base in FCP, "24" actually equals 23.98. Is there a way to get FCP to burn-in true 24 frame timecode over a 23.98 clip or sequence? I can tell FCP what the beginning timecode is, all it needs to do is count it and display it as true 24. Thanks, Jason


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Joseph Owens
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 4:06:14 pm

[Jason Watkins] "Is there a way to get FCP to burn-in true 24 frame timecode over a 23.98 clip or sequence?"

You might have to try to create a new timeline and deliberately set its frame rate to 24.000, then re-nest the 23.98 fps sequence into it. Don't let FCP try to override. Bon chance.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Jason Watkins
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 4:21:13 pm

Just to make sure I am doing what you suggest (I am a little confused about "re-nest" so think I am missing something):
I create a sequence at 24 and insert the 23.98 clip. Deny FCP when it asks to change the sequence rate.

If this process is correct, then it plays the 23.98 clip at 24 (speeds it up) and the timecode starts to drift.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 5:41:47 pm

Duplicate your original 23.976 (aka 23.98) footage, then use Cinema tools to conform the duplicated footage to 24.


Considering that almost everything used in FCP short of image sequences from film scans is at 23.976 (aka 23.98), you'll probably have to re-conform an exported clip to get it back to the proper frame rate.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Rafael Amador
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 5:47:48 pm

you can't get a 100% acurate printing because there are two different time-bases. Some frames TC will be repeated.

The first thing you need to get the TC of that Protool file, is to make a QT movie with a Video track (Black), so you can apply the TC Reader or Generator in FC.
Then you can lie that clip in top of your sequence, apply the TC filter and set the "Composite Mode: Multiply".
The TC of the 24 clip will get burned on the 23,98 clip.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Jason Watkins
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 9:38:05 pm

hmmm, this sounds interesting, but I am a little confused. Make a 24 frame QT file with the timecode of the ProTools session?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 9:47:08 pm

Dude, you have a frame rate mismatch. You have to fix that first, or the sync between video & audio will slip more & more as you go farther and farther down the timeline . If you can't change the frame rate of the audio, you have to change the frame rate of the video.

If you can't fix that, getting a window burn of time code is irrelevant, no?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jason Watkins
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 10:06:37 pm

The video and audio are matched fine. Track 1: LTC, Track 2: camera mic. SO, Track 2 and the video are in sync. I bring them into FCP as 23.98. BUT, I need the window burn to match the original LTC timecode on Track 1 which needs to display and run at true 24.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 10:33:26 pm

Oh. Well, then, if everything syncs up, go back and tell your Pro Tools guys to give you the audio with a 23.976 (aka 23.98) frame rate instead of 24.

If they can't do that, then a fundamental error was made in planning and you're hosed.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jason Watkins
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 22, 2011 at 11:40:29 pm

Thanks, for your input...But, I am still interested to hear more specifics on Rafael's solution.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 23, 2011 at 5:54:34 am

Jason,
Sorry i have not replied earlier.

You have stamped your file with the wrong framerate TC.
Kill the TC track and replace it with the correct one.

FCPauxTC reader cannot see the difference between 23.976 and 24.
So you have to set it right in the setup menu.
(It will overwrite the current TC track)

After that things should work out just fine.

hth,

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Rafael Amador
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 23, 2011 at 12:19:18 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Dude, you have a frame rate mismatch. "
Right.
The mismatching is unavoidable (23'98/24), but very small. Few frames will be skipped.

[Jason Watkins] "hmmm, this sounds interesting, but I am a little confused. Make a 24 frame QT file with the timecode of the ProTools session?"
Don't know nothing about Protools, but I guess that you can export that as any QT audio file (PCM, AIFF) KEEPING the TC.
You just need to put add a video track (Black) on FC or QT to get a plain 24fps QT movie (whatever the codec) with the original TC from ProTool.
You just need drop the clip in the sequence and apply the "TC Reader" filter on the clip.
In the Canvas you get a Black with the white TC burnt in.
Set the the clip to Multiply, to get the TC burnt on the underlaying picture.
Easy.
I understand that you don't care about the audio of the 24fps clip, but about the TC.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bouke Vahl
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 23, 2011 at 12:59:41 pm

Rafael,
The sound IS the TC in this case.
He's using LTC on an audio track, and FCPauxTC reader to translate it into QT TC.

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Rafael Amador
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 23, 2011 at 1:48:33 pm

[Bouke Vahl] "The sound IS the TC in this case."
Hi Bouke, yes, I understand that audio files doesn't need a Time-base because they already have a sample-rate, so TC is not a real need (in fact quite often is a real complication).
I thought that this Protool file might have an associated TC track or some how could be added.
Without a proper TC track I don't think the FC's TC Reader could works.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bouke Vahl
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:03:59 pm

well, that is where my app. comes in.
It translates the audio tc (LTC) into QT tc.
But, when generating the QT tc track, it needs to know the timebase.
And that went wrong in this case. (inserting 24 fps TC in a 23.976 clip will drift of course...)

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Rafael Amador
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 23, 2011 at 7:03:28 pm

[Bouke Vahl] "And that went wrong in this case. (inserting 24 fps TC in a 23.976 clip will drift of course...)"
Yeah, this discrepancy is always a mayor source of troubles.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Jason Watkins
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 25, 2011 at 5:43:56 pm

Thanks for all the help and suggestions! I found a hack workaround:
Import the .MTS to FCP, conform it to 24 in Cinema Tools, drop it into a 24 frame sequence, apply to correct TC to the sequence time, and modify the sequence to playback 99.9% slower. It works. Frames blend horribly, but it works. Also, FCPauxTC works as well, either modifying the original quicktime, or exporting a self contained quicktime. Thanks again, Jason


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Rafael Amador
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 25, 2011 at 6:25:02 pm

[Jason Watkins] "Frames blend horribly, but it works."
Uncheck "Frame Blending".
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 25, 2011 at 6:33:24 pm

i still don't understand why you are trying to force video to playback at audio tc. it should be the other way around as audio is way more flexible.

Also, why didn't you just make a 24.0 timeline and add a slug and a tc generator to match the audio tc?

Then you simply mask out what you don't need and copy paste it in to your 23.976 sequence.

That would keep video @ 23.98 but display the 24.0 tc.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: video at 23.98 Timecode at True 24
on Apr 23, 2011 at 7:50:53 am

This is not making any sense. Why are you working this way?


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