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Rob Fourchalk
Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 21, 2011 at 4:43:32 pm

Just wondering if anyone could direct me toward what you feel would be a fast (yet cheaper) raid solution to add to my mac pro. I currently have (2) internal hard drives: first dedicated drive with all programs = 1tb and the 2nd drive = 2tb. Should I just keep adding internal drives and raid them out to 0 and 1 as I want to increase speed for editing in FCP and want backup. If I continue with additional 2tb drives, would it matter that my main drive is only 1tb?

How much faster would apple's raid card make it. I know external drives are more practical in case computer crashes but I'm already on my way of building up my internals.

Anyway, any advice would be great!

Thanks....


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Michael Gissing
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 21, 2011 at 9:17:30 pm

I would suspect that the cheapest way is to internally RAID. I have a four drive internal 4.5TB RAID which is fast enough to do Uncompressed HD and cost very little.


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Shane Ross
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 21, 2011 at 10:09:36 pm

YOu want a RAID and backup. Do you mean a PROTECTED RAID like Raid 5 or 6? Or a RAID for speed, and then drives for backup? You won't get RAID 5 internally without the Apple or CalDigit Raid cards. But then you can only RAID together 3 drives. You want cheap, and fast, and backup?

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 21, 2011 at 11:02:17 pm

I would like a raid for speed and then drives for backup. Would this not be achieved by Raid 0 and 1 with (if I maxed out my internal drive bays) 3 drives Raiding at 0 and the one last drive Raiding at 1 mirroring or backing up files, data.

The thing is I'm setting up my mac pro to be editing wedding videography (business) in hdv and want it to run as fast as possible (and cheapest - money is tight starting out the business with all other expenses) while backing up everything in case the original drive goes kapootz.

I'm I slightly off track here or would raid 5 with a raid card be best (yet more expensive- yikes).


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 21, 2011 at 11:24:13 pm

Forget RAID 1, it's not suitable for video.

The cheapest solution for you would be (2) 1Tb hard drives striped as RAID 0, and a single 2Tb drive to backup that up to.

Backups are not a constantly nagging and ongoing issue that's so demanding that it can't simply be done manually. You capture new video and back it up that night while you sleep, and you're done. And when you acquire new material, or audio, or graphics, you back them up too. But, that's about it...

It's your FCP project files that you need to back up often, and that's no big deal, it can be backed up to a thumb drive or a DVD.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 21, 2011 at 11:42:41 pm

That sounds like it would suit my basic needs David. Thanks. Probably a stupid question but couldn't I just back up my FCP project files on the 2tb backup drive which you speak of?


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 21, 2011 at 11:49:10 pm

[Rob Fourchalk] "couldn't I just back up my FCP project files on the 2tb backup drive which you speak of?"

You can... But, most usually want them safely stored off of the computer. A thumb drive is mighty convenient for that purpose.

Personally, I back up all of my project files to my MobileMe iDisk, to a thumb drive, and to another computer.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 22, 2011 at 12:14:29 am

Gotch ya. Lastly, would you recommend backing up to the 2tb internal drive with time machine or just, as you mentioned, manually?


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 22, 2011 at 1:12:50 am

If you're a one man band just backup manually, and hope you never have use the backup.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Jason Porthouse
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 22, 2011 at 11:46:19 am

I have 3 of the 4 internal bays in my Mac Pro RAIDed as Raid 0 for speed. Plenty fast for 90% of my needs.

I then backup media to bare drives, bought cheaply and attached using one of the caddies you can buy - mine is USB2 but there are Firewire 800 and SATA versions. But as it's an overnight thing, it's no biggie for me. The bare drives then get put back in their antistat wrappers and stored, remembering to spin them up and run a check every couple of months or so. FCP projects get backed up to thumb drives as well as another attached drive, so 3 copies in all.

I can be un and running reasonably quickly - not as good as RAID 5 but cheaper. For the work I do it suits me fine.

Jason

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

*the artist formally known as Jaymags*


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 22, 2011 at 3:09:57 pm

Hi Jason. Couple questions about your set up. Actually I'll just fill you in on what I'd like to do. Firstly, right now I have a 1tb drive (main drive for programs etc..), and I have for my 2nd drive a 2tb drive (both drives the stock Serial ATA's). I would like to add (2) more 2tb hard drives (different brand from macsales.com) to fill all bays.

Questions: If I'm going to raid 0 my 2nd 3rd and 4th drives together, do they all need to have the same capacity (eg all need to be 1tb drives or all need to be 2tb drives)?

Next question: is it ok to mix with different hard drive brands together (eg http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Hitachi/0S02861/ with my stocked hard drives?

Thanks....


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Jason Porthouse
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 26, 2011 at 9:26:43 am

Hi Rob,

Sorry for the tardiness of my reply, spent Easter working in a field with lots of horses and little internet.

Yes, the drives absolutely need to be the same capacity, and ideally the same brand - but the last isn't a deal breaker as long as they're all the same spec (ie 7200rpm, X amount of cache). Deviation from this MAY incur problems and erratic behaviour...

If you can't get them to match - consider 3 new drives, and relegate your old one to backup purposes. Worth the extra hundred or so bucks for peace of mind...

Jason

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

*the artist formally known as Jaymags*


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 26, 2011 at 9:38:45 am

For a RAID0, if all the drives are identical - brand, model, age - it's best. Their spin up/down and latencies match and the RAID actually works faster.

Depending on the resolution and compression you're working on, you may not even need a RAID0 in the first place. Today's SATA 7200 rpm drives are plenty fast for HD up to Apple ProResHQ. It's only when you need many streams of Apple ProResHQ simultaneously, that you actually see some benefit of a multiple-drive RAID.

If your original media is AVCHD, or Canon video, then those are pretty small files. You can back them up to many Blu-ray disks. Each Blu-ray disk costing a few dollars, can hold about an hour worth of Canon files, and many hours of AVCHD. If you transcode with Compressor and save the batch along with the original compressed camera originals, you can get back identical ProRes files in a hurry.

And you can backup the the ProRes transcodes to bare SATA drives which you load with a dock. Should the backup drive fail, you still have the Blu-ray which only needs transcoding, the parameters for which are saved along with the target folder as well.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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Jeff Breuer
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 26, 2011 at 6:04:35 pm

We have a very similar set up where I work. 3 internal Raided (identical) hard drives, back up through esata and and a dock for internal drives that we use for archiving (w/ anti-static bags). In terms of workflow, I agree with everyone here - it works well.

Although it's been reliable for us, it has been a bit slow at times. I might click away from FCP and then back or open a finder window and the computer will stop and think for a while till I hear the Hard Drives wind up and click over. I noticed though that this system's internal RAID was set up as RAID 2. I don't know much about RAID, but could that be the problem?

thanks.

Jeff


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 26, 2011 at 9:33:29 pm

Thanks Jason - Yeah I just purchased a couple of these http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Hitachi/0S02861/ to go along with my 2tb apple stocked hard drive. Didn't check before to make sure the cache was the same as these ones are 64mb. I think the apple's may be 32mb come to think of it. Think I'll have problems as you suggested?

Thanks again....


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Jason Porthouse
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 27, 2011 at 9:51:56 am

[Rob Fourchalk] "Think I'll have problems as you suggested?"


Dunno Rob, try it and see. I doubt it will do anything nasty - you just never know. If it does seem to be problematic, buy another drive and relegate the internal one to external backup duties... you'll need this anyway!!

All the best

Jason

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

*the artist formally known as Jaymags*


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro
on Apr 27, 2011 at 10:42:58 pm

Thanks Jason - just hooked up a couple of 2tb drives (exact same ones) together raided at 0 and using my other 2tb (different drive) as backup. No problems to report and quite fast (for me anyway).

Thanks again for all feedback.


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tad newberry
Re: Best cheapest raid system solution for mac pro - more system info and questions
on Jun 23, 2011 at 4:22:16 pm

a couple more questions here, but so far it sounds like we're all on the same page.

#1 - this seems like a no-brainer, but will FCP operate best (with ProRes HD video clips) if my 2-drive internal RAID uses 7200 rpm drives instead of 5400?

#2 - how much faster would it be if i added a third drive to my RAID?

#3 - what is SATA 6? Will my MacPro utilize it as is, or do i need something else?

#4 - anti-static bags? Are they really needed for shelving/storage? Of course sure they can't hurt, and i am definitely keeping all original packaging now that i'm moving into having more drives for archiving and storage, but just wondering if the two drives i have sitting on my shelf with no bags are in danger?

#5 - Norton/McAfee? i never used it until a month ago, just before i did my full reinstall and have not put it back on. Me no likey...but do any of you guys find a need for it?

#6 - screensavers? I recall a couple years ago with FCP, it was recommended to never use a screen saver. Still the same?

My system at this point:

internal bay 1 - system drive, partitioned as per David great new tutorial (prepping for Lion and FCP X). This drive has OS, all applications, and autosave of all project (FCP and Motion) files. Backed up weekly - incremental backup via Carbon Copy - to external USB drive, via the Black Widow 2-drive caddy. Also, the clean install was cloned and shelved to another drive as well.

bay 2 & 3 - (2) 1.5TB Seagate 5400 drives, RAID 0 for 3TB total. All video clips - MOSTLY HD Pro Res conversions from my Sony NX5 originals (the originals i back up to BluRay as soon as i'm done shooting. Oddly, FCP Log & Transfer is pretty flakey on when it chooses to recognize valid media from my NX5, so i use ClipWrap which is very consistent).

bay 4 - all project files, and i used to have pretty much all media except video here (images, sound library, etc.), but i will be moving all that to the RAID as this seems to be the thing to do. This drive has also become a sort of default long-term storage for other seldom-used files (projects, templates, stock footage, etc.). Because of the project files, this one is backed up daily to an external USB drive.
I like to backup as much stuff as possible to BluRay discs.

Project file organization: i like to create a folder for each new client project. If i end up with more than file of a certain kind, i make a subfolder for each type ("Images", "FCP Projects", "Motion Projects", "DVD Studio Projects", "Sound", etc.). When i'm done with the client project, i back up this main client folder to DVD or BluRay(s), however it fits, then delete it from the drive(s). The only thing i don't archive (unless it is a small project) is the ProRes files that were converted from the camera originals. Too big and too many!

Though i don't miss the image quality, there was something simple and beautiful about ye olde BetaSP tape days... : )

thanks for helping out a bonehead!
__________________________

FCS3
2.66 GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
6GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
...and a few TeraBytes o' storage
(then it's on to PetaBytes, ExaBytes and MosquitoBytes!)


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