FORUMS: list search recent posts

4444 rocks

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Rich Rubasch
4444 rocks
on Mar 24, 2011 at 1:46:00 am

Sorry if I'm late to the 4444 bandwagon, but today I decided to render an After Effects keyed clip to ProRes 4444 with alpha instead of our usual Animation workflow. It was awesome.

It played back in the timeline perfectly, did not need a gamma correction and was nearly half the size of the same clip with Animation.

ProRes really rocks, and the 4444 codec with keyed elements out of After Effects is the way to go if you want to render keys out of AE for FCP.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: 4444 rocks
on Mar 24, 2011 at 11:04:54 am

[Rich Rubasch] "ProRes really rocks, and the 4444 codec with keyed elements out of After Effects is the way to go if you want to render keys out of AE for FCP."
The only problem is that these Prores 444 that you get in AE, are 10b/RGB and in FC will be processed at 8b. You have no option to convert the Prores 444 RGB to Prores 444 YUV.
Another problem is that is the only 10b/RGB codec that I know that has no Full Range/Video range option.
IMO, at the moment Prores 444 is s half developed codec with very limited use. Apple simply shouldn't have released it yet, but they needed some "highlights" to sell FC.7.
Hopefully by FC.8 will fully developed and will be a solution more than a problem.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: 4444 rocks
on Mar 24, 2011 at 10:52:03 pm

Rafeal, come on dude. This is not how this works. Stop spreading that info!

Real time alphas in fcp are great, and sending alphas to other people is a lot easier with the smaller ProRes files rather than animation files, for sure. I think 4x4 is a very welcome addition.


Return to posts index


Rafael Amador
Re: 4444 rocks
on Mar 24, 2011 at 11:21:33 pm

Jeremy, you should agree with me that Prores 444 is not fully functional yet.
A codec where you can't chose the Color Space on export, is half codec.
It would be great that the Prores 444 out of AE would be YUV instead of RGB (the only application able to convert Prores 444 RGB to Prores 444 YUV,or the other way, is FC. That's not normal. FC has never shone making any kind of Color Space conversion).
All this doesn't dismiss the advantages of a 10b Alpha channel.
I just wanted to point Rich about problems he may find working with Prores 444.
I was as enthusiastic as him self when Prores 444 was released.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: 4444 rocks
on Mar 25, 2011 at 4:32:45 pm

[Rafael Amador] "Jeremy, you should agree with me that Prores 444 is not fully functional yet. "

I can't say that I do.

[Rafael Amador] "A codec where you can't chose the Color Space on export, is half codec. "

Then all of Apple's codecs are "half codecs"? The way ProRes 4x4 is supposed to work is that if the application rendering calls for RGB, the ProRes4x4 is RGB, if YUV, then YUV. In the case of AE, it's only an RGB render, so therefore it should be RGB rendered (and ProRes 4x4 will get rendered to 12bit from a 16bit AE project). Back in FCP, you can tell it to render YUV and get the full 10bits, but most likely you will be working in a ProRes or HQ sequence, where it will get rendered with 10bit precision in YUV. Your 8b RGB argument does not apply. If the sequence codec is YUV and can be precessed in 10b, so will any file you add to it. This is fairly easy to prove with a capture card and a 10bit capable monitor.

[Rafael Amador] "It would be great that the Prores 444 out of AE would be YUV instead of RGB (the only application able to convert Prores 444 RGB to Prores 444 YUV,or the other way, is FC. That's not normal. FC has never shone making any kind of Color Space conversion)."

Since AE is an RGB renderer, this is kind of not possible. AE would need YUV rendering capabilities.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: 4444 rocks
on Mar 25, 2011 at 5:14:38 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Since AE is an RGB renderer, this is kind of not possible. AE would need YUV rendering capabilities."
So can you tell me how AE does to export the rest of Prores flavors (all YUV)?
AE (same than Color) renders internally in RGB, but export to the codec and color space that you choose.

No Jeremy it simply should be a YUV and RGB option as its happens with any Professional codec as AJA or Sheer. You have a 10b YUV and a 10b RGB option (I guess AVI codecs does too).
This only happens with Prores 444.
Beside that, its happens to be the only 10b RGB codec without a Full Range/Video Range option.

[Jeremy Garchow] "d ProRes 4x4 will get rendered to 12bit from a 16bit AE project)"
If this was so, FC should be able to put out 12b/YUV Prores444 when rendering in High Precision (what means 32b FP). The only mention on the literature about "12b" is that "Prores 444 SUPPORTS 12b". What a heck means SUPPORTS 12b?
Again something wrong: A codec where yo don't even know the real bit-depth of what you are exporting.
Prores is a great codec but needs to be fully customizable.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index


Dave LaRonde
Re: 4444 rocks
on Mar 24, 2011 at 3:03:55 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "I decided to render an After Effects keyed clip to ProRes 4444 with alpha instead of our usual Animation workflow."

If that's how you work, not much will change it, especially if there's an overwhelming reason to keep the subject separate from the background.

But if you'd like to be better able to match colors between subject and background, incorporate the subject into the background a little more with light wrap, fake shadows to further sell the shot and render a completed shot in good ol' ProRes 422, you're only doing a partial job in AE right now.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Rich Rubasch
Re: 4444 rocks
on Mar 25, 2011 at 1:29:51 am

I work magic in FCP with a keyed green screen interview from AE over a background in FCP....and if the client wants a different background I can simply edit it in FCP. We also fly things behind the interview that change at the last minute so the only way to work efficiently is to have a pre-keyed clip in FCP and the ProRes 4444 is a thing of beauty.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: 4444 rocks
on Mar 25, 2011 at 9:59:44 pm

Those are some overwhelming reasons, all right.
One fine day, my station plans to upgrade to FCP 7 and I too can fool with ProRes 4444.

I expect it'll happen about the time Apple comes out with FCP 8. We like to stay on top of things.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2018 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]