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16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast

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Adam Bloemink
16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 8, 2011 at 8:43:08 pm

Hey guys,

We have 13 episodes edited (with imported ProRes animations) in HDV sequences.

One of our broadcasters is requesting a down convert to SD for Digibeta. What would be the best workflow? In the spec sheet, they are requesting 'Digital Beta 4:3 full frame'.

I expect, it might be along the lines of:

- Export HDV (1440x1080, 1.33, upper fields) 16x9 sequence to full HD ProRes.
- Down convert HD ProRes to NTSC ProRes (720x480, 0.91, letterboxed, lower fields)

My concerns are:

1. They are requesting full frame, but we will be forced to submit letterbox. Otherwise, we will have to change the positioning of everything.

2. Converting the color space from HDV to SD may noticeably affect my picture.


Thanks for your insight,
Adam


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keith mcgregor
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 8, 2011 at 8:46:13 pm

I usually have just placed it in a sd timeline and resize it there with letterboxing so it doesn't suck and seems to work every time. Trying to do both through compressor might mess with your aspect ratio. And Episode is the way to go for final broadcast delivery.
-Beef

Reality? What did you make it?


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Michael Gissing
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 8, 2011 at 9:08:46 pm

Terminology here is very important. When a broadcaster says 4:3 full frame they may be meaning 4:3 Full Height which is the common international speak for anamorphic 16:9 within the 4:3 frame. So ask the broadcaster if they mean 4:3 full height. Letterboxing a 16:9 to 4:3 is so yesterday and broadcasters, if they are transmitting 16:9 anamorphic, hate to transmit a signal with all that black wasted space around it.

Never assume with broadcasters. Ask what they actually want. If it is a 4:3 crop of the 16:9, then don't think they will be happy with letterbox. Ask.

Best workflow without a doubt it to downconvert in real time from your HD timeline. I use a Kona3 or my HDCam to perform this downconvert. Second best is to export your final timeline as a self contained with current settings and then use Compressor to make an SD file. Turn frame controls on and set for best quality. Takes longer but looks better. Try searching this forum as many posts have talked about best settings. We also have the FAQ at the top (near add a new post) which has advice on conversions. If you are going to use a facility with a Kona or other hardware like a Teranex, then ask them what file format to deliver for the playout to tape.


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Shane Ross
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 8, 2011 at 10:08:40 pm

In my experience, 4:3 FULL FRAME means that it isn't letterboxed, and it isn't anamorphic. It is basically a CENTER CUT. The sides chopped off. I get this spec a lot.

OUtputting via a capture card will do this automatically...no need to do it in the sequence or Compressor.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Adam Bloemink
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 8, 2011 at 10:43:24 pm

Thanks guys,

Exporting the final timeline as a self contained, while using compressor to create the SD file sounds like it would work great.

I'm waiting to hear back from the broadcaster. Unfortunately, I think Shane may be right. (Full frame = sides chopped off) Hopefully there will be a way around this, as our videographer shot for 16x9, and everything has already been positioned as such.


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Shane Ross
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 8, 2011 at 10:46:17 pm

[Adam Bloemink] "as our videographer shot for 16x9, and everything has already been positioned as such."

Ugh...that's an issue. In that case, you might need to manually "pan and scan" each shot in an SD timeline. Reposition the shots so you see at least one side. But when they say FULL FRAME, they do not want letterboxed...period.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Adam Bloemink
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 8, 2011 at 11:06:29 pm

Ugh, let's hope not. I've sent an email off to the broadcaster, hopefully they come back with good news.

I'm hoping there may be an option to submit in NTSC widescreen (A.K.A. 720 x 480 with 1.21 pixel aspect ratio, rather than 0.9)


Adam


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Sam Cole
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 8, 2011 at 11:47:52 pm

. . . and remember if you have to 'pan' to centre the action you may have a problem with your on screen text.
When we supply international masters we usually place textless versions at the end (standard requirement) as well as the 'english text' for that very reason. It seems international distributors are also having 4:3 SD delivery requirements from our HDCAM masters

Sam Cole
On line Mastering Facility
FCP, Avid, Adobe
Sydney, Australia


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Joey Burnham
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 9, 2011 at 12:42:32 am

When I hear 4x3 full frame I immediately thing they are saying 1.33 FF.
Funny, Fox Home Video insisted on this format until about 2 years ago for all of their domestic home video tv spots. Thank god that's over.

But yes, basically if that's what you want, and your camera guys shot for 16x9, you'll need to do a center punch and then pan/scan every shot. Doesn't sound like fun.

I don't understand what's so bad about letterbox. I'd get more clarification from them.

Joey


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Lee Warner
Re: 16 x 9 HDV to SD Full Frame for broadcast
on Mar 9, 2011 at 5:38:21 pm

Up here in the frozen north the term we're using is 4:3 Safe which is the equivalent to the term Center Cut. Which means yes the video can be 16:9 for HD broadcast but for the SD downconvert all the important elements must be in the middle area since the wings get cut off.

Lee
SAMDOG Digital Post
Calgary, Alberta
Mac Pro 2.66 12-core 16gb ram • FSI LM1760W Monitor • Matrox MX02 • Caldigit HD One 8tb Raid • Euphonix MC Transport • Final Cut Studio 3 • Premiere Pro CS5


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