FORUMS: list search recent posts

New Ninja recorder for ProRes

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Michael Gissing
New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 21, 2011 at 5:44:18 am

http://www.atomos.com/

New product and it looks very interesting. This box looks like a very nice way to bypass the whole DSLR Log & Transfer route.

I know AJA have their KiPro & mini so this isn't a new concept, just a cheaper, small form factor alternative.It is slightly smaller than the KiPro mini and uses hard drives not compact flash cards with up to 750 gig disks. The drives are potentially cheap enough to treat like a tape and use them as archive masters. I would love to hear from anyone using one in the field and in post.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 21, 2011 at 6:36:11 am

Well, it won't work with the Canon DSLRs...the HDMI out is the LCD, so it has text and grey bars, plus it shuts down the LCD, so you can't see what you are shooting. And if you press record, the HD signal via HDMI becomes SD. But tough to use it when you can't see.

I hear it works with the Panasonic camera though...and other cameras with HDMI out.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Phil Balsdon
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 21, 2011 at 7:36:57 am

I'd like to see this working or hear from someone who has one before buying one for Canon HDSLRs.

If it just plugs in to the HDMI how does it record an HD image from the 5D which changes its output to SD when you press record. And how does it get rid of the camera info that you see in the camera or any other LCD you plug into the HDMI port, without hacking the firmware in the camera?

If I plug the camera HDMI out into my Blackmagic DeckLink Studio 2 I can record exactly what I see in the Canon 7D LCD to FCP, its HD but has all the camera info too.

I've heard the Panasonic GH2 can output a clean HD via the HDMI, but don't have first hand experience.

Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


Return to posts index


Michael Gissing
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 21, 2011 at 9:41:48 am

Until there is a firmware version or hack to get a clean feed without losing the LCD, it isn't going to be useful with the Canons, but Nikon are catching up and I am sure there will be more big chip DSLR cameras on the way with HDMI outputs. I hope that third parties are looking at firmware hacks in the meanwhile.

I would be tempted not to put the camera in record in the case of DSLRs. They have problems with overheating as it is, so just externally recording would solve that plus the 12 minute shot limitation. As far as I know the 7D doesn't switch the HDMI to SD, just the 5D.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 21, 2011 at 11:07:05 am

I have the T2i, which is exactly like the 7D. It switches to SD when you press record. And if you just use the HDMI out, you get the LCD display, if you clear the display, you still have the grey bars. Connect the HDMI out to anything, the LCD display goes away, so if you connect to a KiPro, or a Ninja, you are shooting blind. Unless they have a Video out...then you need another monitor.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Phil Balsdon
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 22, 2011 at 12:20:40 pm

The 7D does not drop to SD when recording like other Canon HDSLRs, but you still can't get a clean HDMI out, you get all the camera info.

Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


Return to posts index


Rafael Amador
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 21, 2011 at 11:39:10 am

Everything has been hacked from most DSLRs but the HDMI out.
About the NINJA, the only think I don't like is right that: Just HDMI in, no SDI.
On the field, HDMI is a pain.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Alan Lacey
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 21, 2011 at 6:49:46 pm

At the (UK) show tis week Rafa I was told my my (well respected) friend who works for the European Distributers that they are working on the SDI version. It won't have both HDMI and HD-SDI though. They are making alternative versions to keep the form factor small.

I was very impressed with what I saw although sad to hear about the DSLR problems hightlit above

Alan

FlashXDR,XDcamHD,XDcamEX,D9 etc
FCS,AE,Combustion,LiquidSilver,Vegas,Edius,
G5,MBP,Vista64,XP


Return to posts index

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 23, 2011 at 6:56:01 am

[Phil Balsdon] "... I've heard the Panasonic GH2 can output a clean HD via the HDMI, but don't have first hand experience. ..."

I can confirm that the GH2's live HDMI video output can be set-up to be completely clean & uncluttered by text or icons. It's perfect for critical monitoring at full 1080 HD resolution. The GH2's live HDMI signal is available in most but not all of the camera's operating modes. Importantly, the GH2's EVF or LCD can also be used when an HDMI cable is connected.

However, despite this, the GH2's live HDMI video output is unfortunately not generally appropriate for recording to an external recorder because the video signal is not standard (not "regular"). A monitor or HDTV can display the HDMI video w/o problem for monitoring on set, but as an externally recorded signal it's problematic.

For those inclined to experiment, a post-processing AviSynth script has been developed to deal with the irregular video in the externally recorded file. Read all about it here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?237584-HDMI-Capture-Problem-SOLVED...

---

http://www.peterdv.com


Return to posts index


steve knattress
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 25, 2011 at 4:50:11 pm

I looked at one at the London broadcast show last week.

It is a very neat product, and comes with 2 hot switchable batteries, charger, disc caddy ( extras are of the order of £5 I was told.), and USB caddy to connect to computer, in a case.

Pity there isn't SDI I/P as well as the HDMI input.
You can play your records on the touch screen but no HDMI out.
There obviously is also no way to get time code from the camera/deck into it.
No 2.5HD is provided

I had asked about using the ninja as a non-computer digitiser. (the spec for Prores capture is I believe 4 cores or a very new mac book pro at a pinch.)
I was told that the Ninja, although designed for use with cameras, should take an input from any HDMI source for recording in to ProRes.
However some devices certain DSLR cameras included) may not provide a 'clean' HDMI output - i.e. there may be an overlay or resolution reduction.

The Ninja won't accept an HDMI input when HDCP is invoked by the content provider. and gets an error message to the effect that "This monitor does not support HDCP. Please remove your HDMI cable".
Apparently the rule from the HDCP regulations is "the sending device must refuse to send content to a device that doesn't support HDCP". So at the start of a session, the sending device queries the receiving device to ask whether it is HDCP-compliant, and if it isn't, then it won't send content.

I hope this helps. Steve


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 25, 2011 at 9:20:18 pm

Thanks Steve for the hands on info. If I was Canon or Nikon, I would be making sure that a clean HDMI signal was going to be available to externals like this as it solves many of the inherent problems with DSLRs of shot length limitation, overheating etc.


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 26, 2011 at 2:29:24 am

[Michael Gissing] "Thanks Steve for the hands on info. If I was Canon or Nikon, I would be making sure that a clean HDMI signal was going to be available to externals like this as it solves many of the inherent problems with DSLRs of shot length limitation, overheating etc."
Michael,
That' is to the reach of a Firmware update, but manufacturer, first they don't want to do it (will Canon want to shut his video department?), and second because I don't think they can do it just like that.

There are more things involved on all this than just "a full size/full quality" video signal out of the HDMI.
If an HDSLR put out that signal. is not anymore an HDSLR but a "professiona...
This have many implications on taxes, exports, industrial standards and regulations, royalties, licenses and whatever.

The first generation of MiniDV camcorders had only FW OUT. Putting an FW IN meant that was not just a camera anymore, but a Digital Recorder. Was not just up to the manufacturer putting the FW OUT or not. Sure they made a lot of paperwork before all camcorders had it.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

steve knattress
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 26, 2011 at 2:41:37 pm

If I remember correctly most of the consumer DV cameras in Europe had the firewire in inhibited, but not elsewhere in the world

There were software and hardware "fixes" to enable the interface.

Steve


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Feb 26, 2011 at 3:33:49 pm

[steve knattress] "If I remember correctly most of the consumer DV cameras in Europe had the firewire in inhibited, but not elsewhere in the world"
Right.
The first European users couldn't "Print to tape" because European Community regulations, patents, etc.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Terry Mikkelsen
Re: New Ninja recorder for ProRes
on Oct 12, 2012 at 8:02:27 pm

I have been using one for over a year now. I have recorded from many video cameras including Panasonic and Sony, and have also recorded program out from the ATEM 1. It has performed flawlessly.

Here is an email that I sent to their Business Development Manager back in August of 2011:

Matt,
We decided to purchase one Ninja and see how it would perform and integrate into our workflow. I thought that I would share with you some initial thoughts.
1. We noticed that it is possible to record the HDMI audio AND the analog audio at the same time - all on separate tracks! This is an excellent feature and should be more prominently advertised on the website. We were able to take the stereo camera mic on tracks 3&4 for nat sound, while recording 2 talent mics on 1&2. Great setup!
2. While researching this product, we saw a post somewhere on the internet that complained of very tight fitting between the batteries and the ninja. We also did initially experience this too. However, after a few inserts and removals, it fits quite nicely. The first time we tried to remove the battery it was extremely difficult, almost scary how much force was needed to get it off. I do appreciate the snug fit and I wouldn't change those specs at all. Maybe though when the unit is QC tested before it leaves the shop, it would be powered with the included batteries and they insert and remove them a couple of times to break them in. (I don't think it will be a problem, but hopefully after a few hundred inserts and removals the fitting doesn't become too loose.)
3. The release button on the ninja for the HDD/SDD is in an awkward position. It too was a bit tight on the first few uses.
4. We haven't had time to do any formal comparisons yet, but the initial reaction is the quality is really quite nice. It is super convenient to already have a good quality editing codec on the footage to immediately start editing. When adding lower thirds or any other compositing, the renders and exporting are much faster than when using an HDV timeline.
5. We have some firewire 800 docks for raw drives. We initially thought that we would just use these when transferring footage. When the enclosure that is needed for the ninja is added, it prevents the drive from fitting into the docks. It is greatly appreciated that the atomos drive dock is included along with a second drive caddy! However, this is slightly inconvenient in a multi system facility, as the dock needs to travel with the drive from computer to computer. If the enclosure could somehow only be half as long, leaving the connector end exposed, then the drive would still fit into generic docks.
6. While I understand the need to have the ability to change connectors on the AC plug for the battery charger in order to sell to different countries, the fact that the prong connectors needs to be removed in order to fit in the case is not desirable. We simply modified the foam in the case to accommodate the entire plug, intact. Having another piece removed after each use just adds to the possibility of it being lost.
7. It would be very appreciated if you were to include or, at least, sell an AC adaptor so the ninja does not have to be powered by batteries. So far, we have only found one item for sale which looks like it might do the job. Unfortunately, it is an entire charging system with battery charger and costs about $110.00. Not ideal and we are still looking.
8. Love the build quality of all of the components and the great case that is included!

Tech-T Productions
http://www.tech-t.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2018 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]