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Titles/Credits DV Looking bad

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Paul Stroud
Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 29, 2011 at 5:38:55 pm

Hello people,

Some of the titles at the beginning of this music video I'm working on look great through a dv render as a slight TV/Film 70's style burnt-in white text look is desired. You know, it's got a slight glow to it

I have digitized super8 footage on dv pal and have been editing in this format - looking great. The end credits however and some of the other smaller text bits are a little fuzzy

What can I do?

Shall I render in another format and put the credits on THAT?

Any thoughts?

Thanks


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 29, 2011 at 6:09:46 pm

Once the edit is locked. Change the sequence codec to DV50 and re-render all. This will yield much better results. Also could use 8-bit UC but probably overkill.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Paul Stroud
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 30, 2011 at 4:00:33 pm

Thanks Chris,

Something's not right - it doesn't seem to be having any effect. Text is still a bit 'Liney' and unclear. Even using a motion project to generate text is giving me the same results

And as for 8bit UC. Well, excuse my ignorance but I don't know what that means and I can't seem to find any setting pertaining to it either

Cheers

http://www.paulstroudmusic.co.uk
http://www.stroudandcroft.co.uk
myspace/paulstroudmusic


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Paul Stroud
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 30, 2011 at 4:01:48 pm

Oh - and the movement isn't very smooth. Any thoughts on that?

http://www.paulstroudmusic.co.uk
http://www.stroudandcroft.co.uk
myspace/paulstroudmusic


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 30, 2011 at 8:44:35 pm

Will need sequence settings please.

8bit UC Uncompressed.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Paul Stroud
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 2:46:59 pm

Oh - ok uncompressed



These are the setting I used with the edit.

If I set the field dominance to 'none' it looks great, but the denoiser I used seems to need this set to 'lower' to run - in fact a setting of none causes FCP to crash because of the denoiser. Unless I'm doing something wrong here? Which is very possible :)


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 4:32:46 pm

Is the footage progressive?

Render settings set to FULL & BEST everywhere?

That denoiser may only be so good?

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Paul Stroud
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 4:55:51 pm

It's Super8 footage that's been transfered to dv tape PAL. So I guess no - it's interlaced

It's the Magic Bullet denoiser and has helped a lot with the interior footage.

I suspect that the denoiser is not happy when I tell it that the sequence has no field dominance if the footage is actually interlaced.

I wish it had been transferred progressive. Would it be worth de-interlacing?


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Rafael Amador
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 10:35:24 pm

[Paul Stroud] "It's the Magic Bullet denoiser and has helped a lot with the interior footage.

I suspect that the denoiser is not happy when I tell it that the sequence has no field dominance if the footage is actually interlaced. "

MagicBullet should be more happy of working with Progressive stuff than Interlaced. In fact is designed to for that and RedGiant recommends de-interlace the stuff.


[Paul Stroud] "I wish it had been transferred progressive. Would it be worth de-interlacing?
"

If the movie is Super8 and recorded as DV, in fact still being Progressive. Would be like PSF.
Check the clips as NONE, and edit on a NONE sequence.
DO NOT DE-INTERLACE.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Paul Stroud
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 11:52:11 pm

PSF - and there you go teaching me something else, Raf! Ha ha ha

Well - yeah. Progressive segmented frame - That makes total sense to me. Why would it be true interlace?!

I tested the denoiser on progressive footage and yes it does work. However, it's not so keen to play with the existing sequence. I've set the sequence AND clip Field Dominance to None, and quicktime video settings to progressive.

As I'm writing this... I see that the clip in the time line also needs to be changed to reflect field dominance none in the item properties>...format. I had been changing the footage in the project folder only - wrong

Is there a way to change the clip settings of each clip in the timeline on batch? It's a reasonably fast paced music vid i.e. a lot of cuts :)

Thanks


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Rafael Amador
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Feb 1, 2011 at 10:28:27 am

[Paul Stroud] "I tested the denoiser on progressive footage and yes it does work. However, it's not so keen to play with the existing sequence. I've set the sequence AND clip Field Dominance to None, and quicktime video settings to progressive."
Are you trying to have RT with the de-noiser on top?
All these filters are very heavy to process. I haven't used the MagicBullet one (used the old De-artifacter), but the one I use (NeatVideo), renders in RGB, so no way to play without full rendering.



[Paul Stroud] "As I'm writing this... I see that the clip in the time line also needs to be changed to reflect field dominance none in the item properties>...format. I had been changing the footage in the project folder only - wrong

Is there a way to change the clip settings of each clip in the timeline on batch? It's a reasonably fast paced music vid i.e. a lot of cuts :)"

The changes you make in the Browser, do not affect the clips allready on the time-line.
I'm afraid you will need to replace them one by one.

As has been pointed by Chris Tompkins, AVOID rendering to DV.
Before exporting your master, set de sequence codec PRORES, set "Render in High Precision" and export.
You will lose previous Render files, but do not consider this as a waist of time. This way you will get the best you can get from FC. Whatever your final delivery format, the movie will look much better.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 4:50:50 pm

[Paul Stroud] "but the denoiser I used seems to need this set to 'lower' to run - in fact a setting of none causes FCP to crash because of the denoiser."
I guess you are talking about the "de-interlacer" instead of "de-noiser", don't you?
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 5:13:36 pm

What did they dub the 8mm film to? What format?

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Paul Stroud
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 5:23:57 pm

I spoke to the telecine op and I think he said that it first went to digibeta before being transferred to dv tape PAL

I hope that's what you wanted to know. It's all a bit new to me so forgive the 'Holes'


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 5:29:59 pm

Your footage is interlaced I'd bet.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Paul Stroud
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 5:47:11 pm

It's not for broadcast. Just web and a screening or two

What does one do? Render without titles, de-interlace and do Titles over that?

Transcode the footage with a de-interlace, then reconnect media in the new format - re-apply denoiser to the new progressive footage?

I'm not sure of the best practice/policy here


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Jan 31, 2011 at 6:13:11 pm

Look, you don't want to re-render or re-compress anything more than absolutely necessary.

Keep Sequenced Interlaced - this matches your footage.
Render DV 50 quality or higher.

Output current settings to a file.

Compress file for web (deinterlace here)

Compress file for DVD (NO deinterlace here)

If you have to use the denoiser then you have to live with what it does to your images/grfx right?

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Chris Tompkins
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Feb 1, 2011 at 11:33:43 am

Does Rafael suggestion of None field dom work? I'd go with that if it does.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Paul Stroud
Re: Titles/Credits DV Looking bad
on Feb 1, 2011 at 1:29:32 pm

Oh yeah - it working!

Pain to change all the clip settings, but worth it. Titles and credits are looking really good

Not only that, I've tinkered with the denoiser settings - found that by pushing the chroma offset and pulling the luma offset, I keep virtually all the characteristic grain, but loose this odd green and magenta tones that were coming through.

400% zoom

Without denoiser



With (High Chroma, Low Luma)


Chris... Rafael... thank you so much for all your help


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