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Creating an EDL from a file base workflow

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Anhtu Vu
Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 19, 2011 at 5:57:53 pm

I'm trying export an EDL from FCP7 and having all sorts of problems.

The FCP session originated from an DSLR camera, the client imported the footage, edit and brought the session to my studio for the online. I will be doing the on line on a Smoke ( Mac ) at work. I need an EDL as the XML import on smoke is quite buggy.

First i media manage the client's session and created a new session with prores ( the original was using apple intermediate codecs )

When exporting my EDL i was getting the error message '' The Media files of one or more clips are missing....'' I realised that there was no reel name on my clips...so here are my questions:

1-Since this is all file base workflow, do i just invent a reel name for the clips ??? tried inputting '' reel 1'' for all clips but Smoke could not relink to media on import

2-I notice that all the clips in the browser has been rename, even if this is normal practice while editing, will the EDL relink itself automatically to the proper original clip on the hard disk ???

Thanks for you help



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Shane Ross
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 19, 2011 at 7:52:32 pm

Well, how did they import the footage initially? Convert it? Since they don't have reel numbers, that would indicate which card backup file the originals are...I assume they didn't use FCP to LOG AND TRANSFER. They must have used Compressor or MPEG STREAMCLIP or something to convert. Very very poor practice for offline/online workflows.

Personally, I don't know how you can offline in FCP, and online somewhere else when it comes to tapeless. When people use Log and Transfer, if they change the names, FCP keeps track of the clip by the unique clip identifier. BUT...I also know that the offline/online workflow with DSLRs like the 5D or 7D is problematic...that because they are photography cameras, they might not use this unqiue clip ID number. But if they had the name, reel number, FCP should be able to reimport as ProRes. But lacking a reel number, and the original name...how on earth can you track it now? Can't make a usable EDL without proper reel numbers and timecode.

Do all the clips start at 00;00:00:00? or do they have unique TC?

I suspect that someone really messed up.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Anhtu Vu
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 19, 2011 at 10:08:00 pm

Well, how did they import the footage initially? Convert it?

They used ''Log and Transfer'', then just drop the clips on the timeline and started editing. The codec used was the one set up automatically by FCP when you drop your first clip on the timeline, in this case, Apple Intermediate Codec.


Personally, I don't know how you can offline in FCP, and online somewhere else when it comes to tapeless.


Sure, using XML....when it works :) but i'm starting to realize that with EDL it would be next to impossible.


Do all the clips start at 00;00:00:00? or do they have unique TC?

The timecode is there, as far as i'm aware of, since each clip has different timecode ( in/out).

I guess the main problem is, as you mentioned, without the reel or that unique id number there's no way to track down wich clip it is, even if the timecode was present.

If the above assumtion is correct, then, why would this work when sending FCP project to Color, its import/export is also based on EDL ??



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Shane Ross
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 19, 2011 at 11:43:52 pm

[Anhtu Vu] "The codec used was the one set up automatically by FCP when you drop your first clip on the timeline, in this case, Apple Intermediate Codec."

Boy, did they goof. They didn't choose ProRes? Oy...

[Anhtu Vu] "without the reel or that unique id number there's no way to track down wich clip it is, even if the timecode was present."

If they used Log and Transfer, then there should be reel numbers. FCP adds them. If they aren't there, then something is wrong. Something wasn't done right. FCP adds the reel number by default. If they AREN'T there...then why not? That makes no sense.

[Anhtu Vu] "If the above assumtion is correct, then, why would this work when sending FCP project to Color, its import/export is also based on EDL ??"

Color is XML based, not EDL. RESOLVE is EDL based.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Anhtu Vu
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 20, 2011 at 12:17:18 am

Boy, did they goof. They didn't choose ProRes? Oy...
Why would this be a problem. Work in the native codec ( Apple Intermediate Codec ) and transcode to prorez for on line ( titling, color correction ) ?

If they used Log and Transfer, then there should be reel numbers. FCP adds them. If they aren't there, then something is wrong.
Can this be because we used Media Manager to recompress the sequence to Prorez, therefore, loosing all references ???

Color is XML based, not EDL. RESOLVE is EDL based.
Sorry my bad.



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Shane Ross
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 20, 2011 at 12:26:39 am

[Anhtu Vu] "Why would this be a problem. Work in the native codec ( Apple Intermediate Codec ) and transcode to prorez for on line ( titling, color correction ) ?"

That isn't the native codec. Apple Intermediate is an APPLE codec. An old one, and not a good one. DSLRs shoot H.264 (Canon, Nikon) or AVCHD (Panasonic). AVCHD isn't editable in FCP at all, and H.264 is possible to bring in, but is a bear to deal with. They did not edit native, they converted. They SHOULD have converted to ProRes out of the gate.

[Anhtu Vu] "Can this be because we used Media Manager to recompress the sequence to Prorez, therefore, loosing all references ???"

No. Media Manager should retain the reel and timecode information.

Speaking of this step...this was a bad step. You are taking camera originals that were converted to a sub-par codec (Apple Intermediate), and converting it to ProRes. That was a bad way to do this. The footage needs to be reimported from the masters to ProRes. Converting garbage to ProRes just puts the garbage into a better container. It's still garbage.

They need to Media manage the sequence...using the CREATE OFFLINE option, chose PRORES as the compressor, and then BATCH CAPTURE. But i know there is a big issue in doing this with DSLR footage, mainly Canon footage due to the new EOS plugin. I did tests with the original v1 plugin, and it worked. But apparently the new one has issues if the footage...the full res archived masters (if they have these), have been moved from the location they were imported from in the first place.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Anhtu Vu
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 20, 2011 at 1:42:27 am

If Media Manager retains all infos, can i just reconnect to the original files from my color corrected sequence ( this is the media manage sequence in prores) ??



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Shane Ross
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 20, 2011 at 1:45:20 am

The original ORIGINALS...the camera masters...contain no reel numbers or timecode. That information is in the auxillary files...the MVI files that are recorded along with the QTs. Well, the REEL number isn't...just time of day code is. The REEL number is something FCP assigns to the footage when it imports, so that it can track it. The originals don't have this information.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Anhtu Vu
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 20, 2011 at 2:10:46 am

The client just told me that it's not a DSLR but a video camera, one of the lower end prosumer by Sony. Yeah, more headache !
Anyways, here's what happen and hopefully you can suggest a solution:

-Client brought the project in Apple Intermediate
-Since i thought it was the native codec from the camera (my bad, never assume what the client tells you), i Media manage the sequence to Prores for the online.
-Client just approved the finished sequence ( title and color corrected )

Now, is there a way to reconnect and redigitize from the camera using with my new color-corrected sequence ???

If i understand you post correctly, timecode and reel is generated only during capture and since those captured media were done in Apple intermediate then i'm screwed, because the sequence is linked to the captured media and not the Original media, right ???



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Shane Ross
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 20, 2011 at 2:23:53 am

[Anhtu Vu] "-Client brought the project in Apple Intermediate"

Ask the client HOW the captured the footage. If there are no reel numbers, this is pretty suspect. FCP assigns reel numbers to tape or tapeless ingest. Third party converters do not.


[Anhtu Vu] "Now, is there a way to reconnect and redigitize from the camera using with my new color-corrected sequence ?"

Depends how it was captured/imported in the first place. With no reel numbers, my gut says no. But then, how will you re-link your color correction to the new footage? I don't know a Smoke works.

[Anhtu Vu] "If i understand you post correctly, timecode and reel is generated only during capture and since those captured media were done in Apple intermediate then i'm screwed, because the sequence is linked to the captured media and not the Original media, right ???"

Apple Intermediate is a tricky codec. I don't know if it retains original timecode. If this was done in Final Cut Express, it might lack reel numbers...as AIC is one of FCE's main codecs. But the sequence is linked to the captured media. Always is. The only way to recapture is if proper procedures were followed. Until the client tells you how they did this, I am only taking stabs in the dark. You might be tied to the media you have now...that might be the final that you will have to live with.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Anhtu Vu
Re: Creating an EDL from a file base workflow
on Jan 20, 2011 at 2:47:35 am

She told me she captured via log and transfer with capture preset set for AIC. The camera is a Sony HVR-v1u, so HDV codec native.

How about if i do this: move all the capture media so when i reopen the sequence, i will get a bunch of missing media, instead of reconnecting, i simply recapture from the camera. Would this work via log and capture ???



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