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1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem

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Gigi Harris
1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem
on Jan 14, 2011 at 8:30:04 am

I am not sure if this is where I post this, but it seems like this thread is addressing my issues. I shot a wedding using two cameras, a Sony HVR-Z5U and a Sony FX1000. I had them both set to 30P but didn't realize until importing that I had set the Z5U to shoot native 30P and the FX1000 shoots 30P Progressive scan. I captured as HDV30P and all seemed fine in FCP 6. But after my Drive crash and reinstall of operating system and upgrade to FCP7, the timeline calls for rendering now. I checked the info on the clips and thats when I realized that I have both types of 30P. So now I have decided to render as prores 422 to save time with this monster HDV footage. I know I should have captured as ProRes 422 but didn't know about it at the time and now I have 13 hours captured and I don't want to re capture. I am not sure of what sequence settings I should use. What are the general settings for this situation and the render settings. field dominance for native 30P I thought was none but 30 progressive scan says 1080 60i in the info so that is either upper or lower. I get so confused by all of this. I hope I have not been too confusing in my questions. If anyone has any advise, this old dog learning new tricks would really appreciate it.

gigih7


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem
on Jan 14, 2011 at 6:02:56 pm

I think all you'd have to do is change the field ORDER (incorrectly called field dominance in FCP) to None in the browser.

Here's a big surprise for you: the video from BOTH cameras is progressive scan! And BOTH cameras shot interlaced video! There's no such thing as 30PN on a Sony Z5. Here's a quote from the straight from the Z5 brochure:

"24p/30p Progressive Scan Mode: In these modes, the 1080p image captured by the 3 ClearVid CMOS Sensor system is also recorded as an interlaced signal by dividing each frame into two fields. This enables compatibility with current editing and monitoring equipment that only accept interlaced signals, while maintaining the quality of the 1080p image."

And from that same brochure, here's why you simply have to change the field order to None on that other Sony camera's footage:

"For 30p, most NLE software can output the edited timeline in progressive format by merging odd and even fields."

... which is to say, "In the FCP Browser, change the field order to None".




[Gigi Harris] "I know I should have captured as ProRes 422 but didn't know about it at the time and now I have 13 hours captured"

If I were you, I'd bite the bullet, recapture and chalk it up to bitter, hard-won experience. HDV is an extremely processor-intensive codec, and once you start cutting, FCP's response will get progressively slower until it simply chokes. It typically happens at the worst possible time: when you're almost done editing. You're then confronted with some extremely painful choices.

Compared to those choices, recapturing is a minor inconvenience.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gigi Harris
Re: 1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem
on Jan 14, 2011 at 10:33:46 pm

thank you so much for this great information. I would love to recapture to prores, the problem is I am almost done editing the wedding. And you are right, it does choke. That's why I was wondering if it would be possible to copy the timeline over to a new sequence with render settings to Prores 422. Thats one of the places needed to know what to set the field order. If I can do this, I would like to know the proper sequence settings. I haven't added all the effects yet or done color correction or slow mo, which I know will choke things even more if I continue to edit HDV timeline. I have never edited an HDV timeline as prores render, so this is a new game for me. You're the best. I am so grateful to have such talented editors giving me such sound advise. Angels on my shoulders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gigih7


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem
on Jan 14, 2011 at 10:38:38 pm

I've never had to do it, so I don't know the procedure, but it's possible to use the Media Manager to create a duplicate project. In so doing, you're duplicating the footage and converting it to ProRes 422 or ProRes LT.

Like you, I'd have to look at the manual.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gigi Harris
Re: 1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem
on Jan 14, 2011 at 10:34:16 pm

thank you so much for this great information. I would love to recapture to prores, the problem is I am almost done editing the wedding. And you are right, it does choke. That's why I was wondering if it would be possible to copy the timeline over to a new sequence with render settings to Prores 422. Thats one of the places needed to know what to set the field order. If I can do this, I would like to know the proper sequence settings. I haven't added all the effects yet or done color correction or slow mo, which I know will choke things even more if I continue to edit HDV timeline. I have never edited an HDV timeline as prores render, so this is a new game for me. You're the best. I am so grateful to have such talented editors giving me such sound advise. Angels on my shoulders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gigih7


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem
on Jan 14, 2011 at 10:42:27 pm

[Gigi Harris] "I was wondering if it would be possible to copy the timeline over to a new sequence with render settings to Prores 422."

No need to do that Gigi, just do the following:

1) Go to Sequence>>Settings and change the compressor to ProRes 422.

2) Change the field dominance to none (assuming Mr. LaRonde is correct about that)

3) Then re-render

HDV on a ProRes timeline is amazingly fast rendering.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Gigi Harris
Re: 1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem
on Jan 15, 2011 at 8:00:27 am

Thanks,

I'll do that. I was concerned after reading Mr. La Ronde's post about my HVR-Z5U not shooting native 30P or 24P but progressive scan. this really threw me for a loop because that is one of the reasons I bought the camera. I have a number of clients that want me to shoot 24 Native Progressive especially interviews for documentaries. Nobody has complained to date so I went to the sony site and found this information stated about the two cameras
"Native progressive" vs. "Progressive scan"
Another significant difference between the FX1000 and the Z5U is the latter's ability to record native progressive 1080p video, as opposed to the former's "progressive scan" mode.

So my FX 1000 shoots progressive scan (which I did not know) and my Z5U shoots both progressive scan and native. Thats where my confusion lies for editing both together on the same timeline. Do I still change the field dominance to none in the prores sequence settings knowing this information. I have tried both and can't notice a difference when editing. As I said before, when I was in FCP 6, I didn't have to render the footage on the timeline but FCP7 I do (even when it was on an HDV timeline). This seems very very strange. Do you have any idea what may have changed?

gigih7


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Gigi Harris
Re: 1080 30P Native/30Progressive scan sequence settings problem
on Jan 15, 2011 at 9:02:47 pm

Thanks,

I'll do that. I was concerned after reading Mr. La Ronde's post about my HVR-Z5U not shooting native 30P or 24P but progressive scan. this really threw me for a loop because that is one of the reasons I bought the camera. I have a number of clients that want me to shoot 24 Native Progressive especially interviews for documentaries. Nobody has complained to date so I went to the sony site and found this information stated about the two cameras
"Native progressive" vs. "Progressive scan"
Another significant difference between the FX1000 and the Z5U is the latter's ability to record native progressive 1080p video, as opposed to the former's "progressive scan" mode.

So my FX 1000 shoots progressive scan (which I did not know) and my Z5U shoots both progressive scan and native. Thats where my confusion lies for editing both together on the same timeline. Do I still change the field dominance to none in the prores sequence settings knowing this information. I have tried both and can't notice a difference when editing. As I said before, when I was in FCP 6, I didn't have to render the footage on the timeline but FCP7 I do (even when it was on an HDV timeline). This seems very very strange. Do you have any idea what may have changed?

would I have been better off capturing the FX 1000 30 progressive scan footage as 1080 60i rather than 1080 30P since it is in a 60i wrapper. am I loosing resolution on that footage by capturing as 30P.

gigih7


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