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12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory

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Brad Walker
12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 12, 2011 at 10:57:19 pm

I have 3 Macpros in our office all set up the same way. The new 12 core is handling the SAME footage on the SAME hard drive the SAME way: VARICAM and DSLR and footage converted to PRORESHQ I shot footage with my varicam and 5D. The DSLR footage is causing huge problems. It stutters like hell in the VIEWER window only. The canvas is fine. I also get out of memory warnings. Crashes. Mostly when I am applying Magic Bullet effects and Twixtor. It is like I am using FCP Version 1.

HERE IS THE KICKER:

APPLE SENT ANOTHER 12 CORE AND THE SAME THING HAPPENED WTH THEIR STOCK DRIVE IAND FCP CLEAN INSTALL. WHY?????

I have been an apple user for over 15 years, Final Cut pro user since the beginning. This HAS to be a hardware issue since my other macs are acting okay with NO JUDDER in the viewer window with the same footage and very little crashes.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 12, 2011 at 11:21:03 pm

[Brad Walker] "This HAS to be a hardware issue since my other macs are acting okay with NO JUDDER in the viewer window with the same footage and very little crashes."

Sounds like it could be Brad, but...

'Have you taken all other non-essential hardware out or the machine and disconnected all external drives, etc., then tested completely and systematically?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 13, 2011 at 12:59:04 am

By the way, an FCP Apple advisor suggested I try the DSLR footage in imovie. I tried it, and there are no hangs, crashes, etc. Ridiculous. I am really confused and would love any help.


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Paul Jay
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 12, 2011 at 11:27:53 pm

What harddisk is playing your media ?
Do you have a dedicated drive for your prores hq files?
Do you have a decklink card or other hardware installed?
Need more details.


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Thomas Morter-Laing
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 12, 2011 at 11:46:01 pm

Also did I read right that you're converting DSLR footage to prores HQ? Stop doing that, it's a waste of time and hard drive space, use standard prores. I still don't know of any 10 bit DSLR footage....

:D
Tom Morter-Laing
Freelance Editor
Certified Apple Product Proffessional, 2010
http://www.depictproductions.co.uk

Sony Z5, with Rode NTG2.
iMac 27" intel i7 2.93GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI HD5750 [1GB GDDR5], 2TB Int. SATA with 2TB External HDD; (FW800), with Elgato Turbo H264HD.





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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 13, 2011 at 12:54:27 am

I did have an intensity Pro card, however I pulled it and uninstalled the driver along with the Caldigit card and HDELEMENT. Yes, I have done systematic tests... I have eliminated everything from the system with the exception of a dedicated media drive. Still hanging, juddering and crashing on New generation Mac Pro # 2. Has anybody else experienced these issues? What about Twixtor, Magic Bullet out of memory issues? I paid $7,500 dollars for this machine that is inferior to my 1st and 2nd generation Mac Pros.


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James Welburn
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 14, 2011 at 12:28:27 pm

hello

Yes same thing here, only hardware change is a raid card. Crashes, in mid playback, juddery footage, incredibly unstable.

Have moved project to a firewire 800 drive, same thing.

Am now working off my old Mac book pro 2007 model.


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 14, 2011 at 3:23:46 pm

That is so crazy! As stated before, I am not new at this. Have been editing FCP since version 1 with my Mac G4! I uninstalled, reinstalled, had Apple send me a new machine. Nothing works! Same footage on an older Mac Pro works beautifully with same internal hardware, 3rd party plugins! Does anyone have these same issues? It is NOT the video card as I swapped with my 2009 generation video card 4870. Apple is stumped. I am stumped. The arrogant FCP guys tell me the same thing every time. Uninstall your 3rd party software. Did that too. Nada. What is up with this new machine. Apple - now that your stock is at over 300, shift your focus from the ipad slightly to Pro Apps! We need you OR we are going to flock to AVID. Please does anybody have any thoughts besides uninstalling, cache, preferences?


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 14, 2011 at 4:53:09 pm

That is so crazy! As stated before, I am not new at this. Have been editing FCP since version 1 with my Mac G4! I uninstalled, reinstalled, had Apple send me a new machine. Nothing works! Same footage on an older Mac Pro works beautifully! Does anyone have these same issues? It is NOT the video card as I swapped with my 2009 generation video card 4870. Apple is stumped. I am stumped. The arrogant FCP guys tell me the same thing every time. Uninstall your 3rd party software. Did that too. Nada. What is up with this new machine. Apple - now that your stock is at over 300, shift your focus from the ipad slightly to Pro Apps! We need you OR we are going to flock to AVID. Please does anybody have any thoughts besides uninstalling, cache, preferences?


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Paul Jay
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 15, 2011 at 6:39:27 pm

Let it replaced.
Obviously you can show and reproduce the problem.
I've seen a lot of new generation MacPro's perform flawlessly.


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 15, 2011 at 7:34:41 pm

I already have...same issue. It seems there is something wrong with the Radeon 5870 and the 12 core Mac Pro.


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John Davidson
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 7:26:43 am

Switch to 32bit kernel. There are pref panes you can instll for this. I used to have at problem but that seemed to solve it. I have the 12 core as well and documented this the first week it came out. I don't have the problem anymore.


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 8:08:54 am

Excellent. Installed a preference pane, however, it didn't seem to work. So, I went ahead and typed the following command line in the terminal

sudo systemsetup -setkernelbootarchitecture i386

It is 32 bit ready.

THANKS!
I will do some testing and see how it goes!

Brad


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John Davidson
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 8:47:51 am

I have a thread on the apple forums about this. It's been a while since its happened, but I'll try to dig it up and post it for your. Good luck!


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 1:54:31 pm

Thanks John!


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 4:31:59 pm

I am now continuing to get hard crashes from twixtor 5.1...booted up in 64 bit...same thing. Any ideas??


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 4:47:43 pm

[Brad Walker] "I am now continuing to get hard crashes from twixtor 5.1...booted up in 64 bit...same thing. Any ideas??"

Uninstall Twixtor...

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 5:13:10 pm

I did that and reinstalled...unfortunately, the 15 minute project that is due very soon has twixtor all over it. Any reasons/conflicts for the crash on this new computer? Does twixtor not like the 12 core?

Thanks!
Brad


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Steve Modica
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 12:39:33 pm

Have you tried swapping graphics cards between systems? Seems like the next test to run.

Also, it was not clear to me whether you actually moved from a 64 bit kernel to a 32 bit kernel, or if you were already 32 bit (I think that's the default on mac pros). If you hold down the 6 and 4 keys while powering up, it will try and boot 64 bit.

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 16, 2011 at 1:38:01 pm

Thanks...yes, I swapped out with a 4870 Radeon...same thing. I also swapped the Mac Pro out with a different one....fixed the _unknown user permissions. Right now, I am in 32 bit -- confirmed. Serious testing today. The TWIXTOR plugin is what is causing most of the crashing now.

Brad


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John Davidson
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 1:06:01 am

Here Brad, there are more people going through this here....
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2577758&tstart=0
Do you have a Kona 3 installed with the latest software? One thing I did around the time that I was having problems was downgrading to the 7.5 Kona software.


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John Davidson
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 1:14:13 am

Does it look like this?
http://www.magicfeatherfilms.com/home/example.html

Can you detail any additional hardware you have attached to the systems that display the problem? Perhaps we can cross reference our information and figure out what the 'trigger' is...I personally never use twixtor...


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 2:31:46 am

Link to clip:







These are all the same plugins used on the other MAC PROS (2006 and 2009). Everything was tested the SAME on the other computers...plugins, media, projects, SAS card, HDElement, everything. Flawless on the other machines.

I have received 2 12 CORE MAC PROS from apple -- same issues with 3 DIFFERENT PRORES PROJECTS. It has to be a conflict in the OS. Without plugins: video in viewer window looks like a rave. With plugins, FCP crashes more than 20x a day.

The customer support from the 3rd party plugins has been great from Twixtor and Magic Bullet, however everyone is scratching their heads on this-- Apple Level 2 support, FCP support.

UPDATE:
I have completed a third clean install and taken out 2 dimms of memory (I read somewhere that 6 dimms of 2gb each are actually faster than filling all 8. I also kept 10.6.4 and only installed the 7.0.3 update. I also installed Magic Bullet 4.2.1, Twixtor, Noise industries and the DFX plugins. We will see how this test goes...

It


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John Davidson
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 2:47:46 am

If your project is close to due, I'd find an alternative to those plugins if I were you. I wonder if you only went Prores instead of ProresHQ if that would eliminate the problem. HQ obviously takes up more resources. Why don't you do this - take a sequence that can cause the problem, use media manager to create and recompress the short sequence to standard ProRes in a brand new project, then close the HQ project and try to make it crash with the non-HQ footage.

If you find that HQ footage is causing your problem, recompress all the DSLR footage to standard prores. As was mentioned before, ProResHQ converted dslr footage does nothing but reduce resources and use more disk space on your system.

It's possible what solved my issue was fixed in OS updates.

And it's sunday on a long weekend, so I'm not using my own system resources to ensure proper capitalization and spelling!

Good luck!


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 2:52:19 am

Thanks for the input but 2 things don't sit quite right: 1) a 2006 MAC PRO is handling same project perfectly. 2) THis is a 12 core machine...it is SUPPOSED to handle HQ or 4444 or whatever you throw at it. I think 10.6.6 got me in the mess I was in 10.6.4 is working well so far. I'm going to knock on wood.


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John Davidson
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 3:09:32 am

If you can identify that the problem is hdlsr footage at prores hq, wouldn't that be better than being frustrated? Seems like a far easier experiment than reinstalling the OS three times...


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 12:26:10 pm

I understand your logic, however, what you are suggesting implicates there is something wrong with the media or transcoding, however, the same prores HQ media works flawlessly with the 2006 and 2009 MAC PROS i the office after thorough testing with the same hard drive, cards, plugins, etc. retranscoding, etc. Perhaps prores HQ does not work with this machine...This would be ridiculous.


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Tracy LaChance
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 18, 2011 at 6:52:04 pm

I've had similar problems with my new mac and I would like to affirm that it isn't your source material and it isn't your plug ins. I work with SD footage and my new mac doesn't have the hardware to show a clip with a Gaussian blur on it, but the old Mac can process it just fine. Just one example of the many problems I've had since receiving my new mac.

It's aggravating that the same material works flawlessly on older machines, but shudders and craps out on a shiny new Mac.

Sorry I have no answers and can only empathize. We've talked to the arrogant and asinine FCP "support" with no resolution. Apple screwed up and they don't know how and they won't admit it.


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Steve Modica
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 2:40:26 pm

[Brad Walker] "Thanks for the input but 2 things don't sit quite right: 1) a 2006 MAC PRO is handling same project perfectly. 2) THis is a 12 core machine...it is SUPPOSED to handle HQ or 4444 or whatever you throw at it. I think 10.6.6 got me in the mess I was in 10.6.4 is working well so far. I'm going to knock on wood."


My guess would be a problem with the plugins you're using and optimization. Little code problems that are normally not hit can go bananas on new hardware. The timing is very different because you have more threads, hyperthreading and an integrated memory controller.

The vendor may know of these problems (or perhaps hasn't tried their code on a 12 core yet!) and you need to let them know. They might be able to do a non-optimized or debug build that works correctly.

Sometimes, things like this are caused by simple mistakes like uninitialized variables in the code. On older machines, they are always 0 anyhow, but on a newer platform that hits memory faster, something might be left in there.

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 3:19:26 pm

True! Already contacted them and you are correct...Twixtor does not have a 12 core in stock.


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Steve Modica
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 17, 2011 at 3:27:31 pm

Isn't that funny?

I would be harsher on the vendor, but apple does this to us. They release these systems with no pre-release program. So absolutely no one has seen the system prior to the day you can buy it. Then the vendors have to fight the herd to get one. If the vendor is a small company without a lot of cash, they may not have $5k laying around to buy the thing either.

So word of warning to all of you, when buying systems, remember that the vendors are buying their test systems at the same time.

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications


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Jason Paul Swifte
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Jan 21, 2011 at 6:20:43 am

Hi Brad
I have the same problem and I am editing on MacBook Pro very happy not.
Mate did you have any luck?
Cheers
Jason


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Nicholas Treharne
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Mar 2, 2011 at 6:28:19 pm

Hello

I did a google search and this thread came up. I am having similar problems. I received a new 12 core Mac Pro with 16GB ram last week. I am editing a project in FCP 7.03. The footage was shot on a Canon XF305 (MXF) and I'm using calibrated software codec to re-wrap the files and use in FCP. However, I'm getting all the symptoms that are listed here. The footage judders when I edit footage 24-style, split-screen etc... It seemed to be ok before I did that... But now I'm getting loads of crashes, out of memory notices, bad codec and the dreaded judder on any footage, even a simple color matte!

This is really unacceptable.... Has anyone found a fix for this yet?? I have loads of deadlines to meet... Before I bought the Mac I was using a hired quad core mac and everything seemed fine. It was the same MXF files with the same calibrated software re-wrap.

Please someone help!! :-(


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Jason Paul Swifte
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Mar 3, 2011 at 5:14:54 am

HI Nicholas

Are you running Red giant software?

All my 1920x1080 do this but not sd.
Do you have this?

Going back to apple now to get this fix I hope?
yours
jason


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Nicholas Treharne
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Mar 3, 2011 at 12:05:39 pm

Thank you so much for replying.

I have thought about this a lot since last night. Yes, I installed Red Giant Magic Bullet Looks and Noise Industries FX Factory yesterday. The system did seem fine before that, but I had only done straight cuts of the footage and not any complex edits... After installing plug-ins and heavy editing, constant crashes and errors...

I don't want to uninstall any plug-ins as I need them for my work....

Please advise

Thanks!!


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Rafael Amador
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Mar 3, 2011 at 1:26:33 pm

Hi Nicholas,
How are your System Permissions?
And what about your HDs Directories?
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Nicholas Treharne
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Mar 3, 2011 at 2:22:22 pm

Hello

I just spoke to Apple and they think it's because I had two Radeon cards in my machine with a monitor (x2) in each card. Apparently, the new Mac Pro with final cut can't use two cards together, so I've plugged both monitors in one card. I did a quick test and it seems ok. But I'm going to play around with it more now and put it through some rendering, editing tests... Hope it's ok... :-.


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Jason Paul Swifte
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Mar 3, 2011 at 11:24:34 pm

I too do not want to delete Red Giant Magic Bullet. I have email red Giant two days ago no news yet.
Please email them thats Red Giant.
If i get a email from them I will forward to you.
its killing me.


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Nicholas Treharne
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Mar 4, 2011 at 8:46:39 pm

Oh no... It seemed ok for a some short edits, but now I'm heavily using effects in Final Cut and MBL Looks, it's starting to judder again.... :-(

Someone must have fixed this by now??? Any news?


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Apr 12, 2011 at 1:30:02 am

Just spoke with "high level" management at Apple...it was sent off to a company they recommended. The tech was able to replicate the problem...and changed the logic board and was again able to replicate the problem. So...they deemed that it WAS NOT a hardware issue...but WAS a software issue...AND they are NOT able to refund me the $7,500 and change for this machine (or swap to a quad, 6 or 8 core), even though it does not work properly with Final Cut Pro. Very interesting. I am obviously VERY frustrated that after 2 Mac Pros and 2 logic boards, the problem was replicated but no solution. Great job Apple!



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Glenn Miers
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Aug 17, 2011 at 4:15:16 am

Hi Brad.

Did you, after all of your frustrations, finally get a solution to the crashing problem with your Mac Pro? I have a similar problem where an older 2008 Mac Pro works fine with a project, but the same project on a new 2011 8-core Mac Pro crashes all the time.


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Brad Walker
Re: 12 Core Mac Pro Hangs, Judders, Crashes, Out Of Memory
on Dec 18, 2011 at 3:51:02 am

No. Never Solved! Still have the same problem on FCP, however, switched to Premiere


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