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5d and XDCAM ex workflow

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emanuele tiziani
5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Dec 2, 2010 at 1:36:40 pm

I re-post this POST with a better Subject Title and some adds.

Good afternoon
for production reason we're editing a movie shot with a sony xdcam and a canon 5d with their own native codecs. The sequence setting is set as a HD 1440x1080 ProRes422 HQ, and finalcut is working rendering the two different sources (h264 and xdcam ex 1080p25).
Converting all the clips to ProRes before starting editing it would be of course much better, but it didn't happens.
The editing is almost finished, and now we've to send it to Color.

My question is: is it better to convert -now- all the clips (both h264 and XDCAM to ProRes) and re-link them on the sequence or can we just export the sequence (with the sequence settings, ProRes) in order to send it to Color? With this second choice, are we going to lose quality?
(we didn't add any filter to the clips, only one flop clip)

I think (watching the great Shane Ross tapeless tutorial) that ProRes 422HQ is a fine codec to work with, without lose quality. Someone is speaking about ProRes 4444, isn't for graphic purpose? Or, in my case (CC in Color) is it a better option?

Thanks so much in advance, I really need to resolve these doubts.
Emanuele


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Alex Elkins
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Dec 2, 2010 at 3:50:28 pm

Hi Emanuele,

There are a lot of problems with your approach here! Why are you editing in a 1440x1080 sequence? Both XDCAM EX cameras and 5D shoot full raster 1920x1080.

If I was in your situation, this is what I would do...

Create a new sequence with the following settings:
Frame Size: 1920 x 1080 (HDTV 1080i)
Pixel Aspect: Square
Field Dominance: None
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422 (NOT HQ)

Copy and paste the contents of your old sequence into the new one. Select all and press CMD+Alt+V and remove Basic Motion and Distort attributes.

All of your clips will now be the correct size in your sequence. Any motion effects that were applied to the clips will need to be re-done.

Send to Color. You shouldn't need to convert the files to ProRes first as far as I know.

In Color set your render settings to render as ProRes 422, 1920x1080

Grade.

Render.

Send to FCP.



Good luck - I think you may need it!

Alex

Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.PostBlue.tv
Shot on RED, Post on FCP/Color: Short Capoeira Film


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Michael Gissing
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Dec 2, 2010 at 8:40:42 pm

I recently was sent a program to grade which was a mix of XDCam and H264 files from a 5D. As it was already edited and I was just grading, I tried a send to Color. I found that Color could not play the sequence but I could jump to still frames.

I then went back and did a Media Manage of the entire program to convert the timeline to ProRes422, deleting unused media and setting handles. I went back to color and did the grades, saving them shot by shot. When the Media Mange was done, I then sent the Prores422 version to Color and pasted my pre saved grades to the new sequence which played in Color. I then did final tweaks (which were only obvious when i could play the sequence) and done. This was a 9 minute short so it wasn't too big a deal. But do yourself a favor and Media Mange to timeline to ProRes422 media before sending to Color.


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emanuele tiziani
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Dec 3, 2010 at 11:07:45 am

Thanks so much for your replays and advises.
Luckily all the nest sequences where right setted (1920x1080, Square), so i could easily re-set the main sequence and now the clips are the correct size.
Once the editing is done I'll media manager to ProRes 422 the timeline and I'll send it to Color.
Again thanks
Emanuele


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Michael Gissing
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Dec 3, 2010 at 10:15:13 pm

[emanuele tiziani] "Once the editing is done I'll media manager to ProRes 422 the timeline and I'll send it to Color."

You will have to un-nest before you send to Color.


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emanuele tiziani
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Dec 4, 2010 at 12:22:22 am

Yes, it's true. I nested theme in order to be able to move sequences faster, so the director (who is use to sit next to me) can watch the timeline and visualize the order of the sequence easily. But sure, I'll un-nest theme as soon as the story will find it's shape.
Thanks a lot for ur help,
Manu


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Hoping Chen
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Mar 18, 2011 at 6:33:13 pm

Alex,

about this setting

"Create a new sequence with the following settings:
Frame Size: 1920 x 1080 (HDTV 1080i)
Pixel Aspect: Square
Field Dominance: None
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422 (NOT HQ)"

May I ask why not HQ?
I'm working on a project with these two kinds of footages too.
I'm the offline editor but would need to make it right.

Thanks a lot.

Hoping


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Alex Elkins
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Mar 18, 2011 at 7:19:25 pm

Hi Hoping,

The simple answer is that HQ doesn't improve quality in this case because h.264 from a DSLR camera and XDCAM EX are significantly lower quality than ProRes 422 anyway.
Gary Adcock wrote an excellent article that delved into the technical side of it all but I can't find it unfortunately! Anyone??

For what it's worth, we edit and grade HD broadcast work all the time using ProRes 422 (non HQ) and there's never been a complaint!

Hope that helps - sorry I couldn't find the link to the article, but if you do a search for ProRes vs ProRes HQ there's plenty of information around.

All the best,
Alex

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.PostBlue.tv
Shot on RED @ 100fps, Post on FCP/Color: Capoeira Film


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Hoping Chen
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Mar 19, 2011 at 12:54:49 am

Alex,

Thanks a lot. I'll look for the article and others.
The better chice is probably transcode the H.264
files to ProRes at the very beginning. Would you agree?
I've done several projects shot on Canon 5D/7D, and transcoded
to ProRes before starting off-line editing. I think it makes
the work later much easier.

Have a nice weekend!
Hoping


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Alex Elkins
Re: 5d and XDCAM ex workflow
on Mar 20, 2011 at 10:11:10 am

[Hoping Chen] "The better chice is probably transcode the H.264
files to ProRes at the very beginning. Would you agree?"


100% agree, although personally I'm hoping the next FCP will work properly with h.264 files. If my iPhone can do it I think my Mac Pro with FCP should too!

All the best,
Alex

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.PostBlue.tv
Shot on RED @ 100fps, Post on FCP/Color: Capoeira Film


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